Ever go on a trip with a teenager who is firmly convinced they will not like it? Guess what—it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. They have a perfectly horrible time.
“Hey, we’re going to ______.”
“Aw, I don’t wanna go! It’s boring. I hate it. Can’t I stay home?”
“Nope. You are going, ‘cause the entire family is going.”
“I won’t have anything to do. Nobody is my age. You guys don’t do anything fun.”
No matter what happens, they are firmly entrenched in not having a good time. If the sun is shining—it is too hot. If the food is plentiful—it is the wrong kind. And if, by some bizarre alignment of the correct stars, they somehow manage to eek out a moment of good time; they will assure you it is in spite of everything you did, and will go immediately back to being miserable.
If you look at an event as being negative, it is easy to find something negative to say about it.
Many Christians hold to the idea of original sin—that since the fall, inherent in humanity is the tendency to be immoral. That it is as part of humanity as hearts, livers and hair. Understand, this is not the claim for the capacity to be immoral, (we all believe that) but rather the overall proclivity to be immoral. This is an important distinction.
As an analogy, imagine having the ability to go right or left, as compared to the proclivity to go right as compared to left. The person with the ability, when reaching a fork in the road, may take a left. At the next fork, however, they may take a right—putting them back in the same direction. Or they may take a series of lefts, realize this was not leading in the way in which they intended, and start taking rights as a correction.
But a person with the proclivity to go right will take a right at the first fork, a right at the second fork, a right at the next fork and the next and the next.
Many Christians view humankind as consisting of the latter situation. Given the choice between a moral and immoral decision, they will make an immoral decision again and again and again. (Since this doesn’t happen in practice, they create the theological doctrine of God’s grace pervasively existing in the universe preventing inevitable self-destruction.)
Just like our teenager, they expect the negative, plan on the negative, and with little surprise—find the negative. I read the blogs, the books, the articles. I listen to the radio programs. Homosexual marriage? One more sign of the impending apocalypse. Movies with violence, sex and drugs? Bad humans, bad! Dancing, sex, crime…all one has to do is watch the evening news and it would confirm your worst fears that humanity is self-imploding.
I’m not saying our world is great. I am not claiming there is no room for improvement. But there is some moral within the world. There are good, beneficial things happening. All is not lost. It is frustrating to constantly read and hear how horrible the world must be, when the person refuses to look for anything positive.
Know what else happens with our teenager? After pointing out some fun things to do, (“I don’t wanna!”) or giving suggestions (“No!”) and being rebuffed, we reach a point of complacency—we don’t care whether they have a good time or not. In the same way, I reach a point of not bothering to point out any moral action, any act of charity to these Christians—it will likewise be rebuffed as, “They must be doing it for selfish reasons” or “It is only because they secretly believe in God.”
What we say is ignored; our reasons disregarded. Do they understand how much insight they give into their own thoughts and motivations?
“If given a chance, and no one knew—you would have an affair.”
“No I wouldn’t. I love my wife, and the guilt would not be worth the small amount of pleasure.”
“Liar. You only say that ‘cause you have to. You have original sin—you want to commit immoral acts.”
“No, I really don’t. I have the ability to make a choice…”
“Yes, and your choice will be immoral. You have a fallen conscience.”
“Actually, I make the choice based upon observation, past experience, upbringing, environment and other factors.”
“And all those factors are corrupt and sinful. You want to sin, sin, sin!”
“Sigh….forget it….”
I am not perfect. I recognize I violate my own moral code—I am certainly violating what some theist thinks their god’s moral code is. But I also recognize I have the choice. And as much as the blame for violating my moral code rests with me, the credit in not doing so does as well. Yet I am constantly saddled with the blame, and never provided any credit.
There is no “common ground.” No point in which we can agree as to what humans are like. If you are viewing us as evil monsters—you cannot find “common ground” in which we are sometimes angels as well.
Monday, August 18, 2008
Monday, August 11, 2008
Our Criminal Justice System is Failing
Because it has become the “art-of-the-deal.” Plea bargaining is a necessary part of our legal system. It is an offer to the accused that if they plead guilty rather than take a matter to trial, they will receive certain benefits. Perhaps the defendant will plead to a reduced charge in exchange for the original charge being dropped. Perhaps the defendant will agree to plead to the original charge upon a certain sentence or monetary restriction.
For many reasons—some obvious, some not so obvious—plea bargaining is needed. If every case of every accused went to trial, our system would bog down. (If you don’t like jury duty now, when 90-95% of cases are negotiated prior to trial, imagine how many more times you would be called with such an increase of caseload!) We would need to hire more prosecutors (increase taxes), more judges (increase taxes), more court personnel (increase taxes) and build more courtrooms (increase taxes.)
And that is simply to get to the point of hearing a verdict! If we start to impose more sentences, we would need many more jails and prisons. Which would require…I don’t even have to say it, do I?
Let’s make this personal. While out one evening, some miscreant breaks into your home and steals your television. He is caught, charged, and now the prosecutor is offering to have the defendant plead guilty to a lesser offense, most likely receiving minimal or no jail time, some probation and then off he goes.
You probably are mad. And feel a little violated. It was your home—where your children and pets and spouse live. It was your television—you worked hard to earn the money to buy it. You no longer feel safe; you now triple-lock the doors. Who is this punk to waltz through so easily? The law says stealing a television from a home results in a certain crime and a certain punishment; why should they get a break?
But look at it in the bigger picture. While this fellow is (rightly) going through a trial for stealing a television, a child molester is not. Or a wife-beater. Or a rapist. What is a replaceable television as compared to the broken lives waiting for repair? While your criminal is sitting in prison—there are only so many beds. Jails, due to over-crowding, have the right to release prisoners early. Who do you want sitting in prison—a guy who stole a television or a guy who raped his own daughter?
Within the system we ask the victim to sacrifice their justice. As lawyers, judges, prosecutors and probation officers we see case after case after case. To the victim this may be their one and only brush with crime. To us it is case 9,473 out of 10,000. I can understand why the victim feels the system fails to adequately address their needs—they see it once and what they see is a lack of the criminal receiving the appropriate justice. We see it so many times, in order to make it even feasible we compromise over and over.
Unfortunately we have become jaded to the process. Now, everything is about “the deal.” Not the crime, not the victim, not justice—what is the best deal we can make and get out.
It has become too rare we say, “Enough. THIS crime will not ‘get the deal.’ This crime must be addressed.” The case of the Mayor of Detroit is an example of when we need to say “Enough.”
I heard on a news media, there are meetings by which the Mayor’s representatives are meeting with local officials to negotiate the possibility of his resignation in exchange for pleading guilty to a lesser crime. There was even a suggestion he could plead to a misdemeanor in order to keep his law license. (In Michigan, if you are convicted of a felony, your law license is automatically revoked.)
Because the community is tired of this Mayor, because it would be “best for the city,” it would not be surprising to see such a deal emerge. It is what the system does. I think we are slitting our own throats to allow this to happen. He should be tried, and if convicted, receive the appropriate sentence under the statute. Here is why:
You may need a little background. Detroit police officer Gary Brown was investigating an incident surrounding a party alleged to have happened at the Manoogian Mansion (home of the current Detroit Mayor) and as part of that incident, an alleged affair Mayor Kilpatrick was having with his chief of staff, Christine Beatty.
Deputy Brown was fired. He filed suit against the City of Detroit (and others) claiming he was wrongfully fired for doing his job, because he was investigating the Mayor. Mayor Kilpatrick testified repeatedly he had nothing to do with Deputy Brown’s firing and never had an affair with Ms. Beatty. Ms. Beatty testified she had nothing to do with the firing and no affair with Mayor Kilpatrick.
The jury was not persuaded, and awarded a mutli-million dollar verdict against the City of Detroit. The City appealed. In the process of the appeal, the case was settled for almost $9 Million.
It is now claimed that during the settlement negotiations, certain text messages were obtained by subpoena, which appear to completely contradict the Mayor’s testimony. The messages imply both an affair, as well as knowledge of Brown’s firing, and the reason for his being fired. It is claimed the reason the settlement was negotiated was under threat of these messages being released.
As it turns out, many of these messages were released anyway. The prosecutor for the county of Wayne (where Detroit is) decided to charge Mayor Kilpatrick with perjury—lying under oath. I was amazed (and appalled) to see many “human-on-the-street” interviews with citizens who said, “Aw, leave him alone” or “This was peripheral to the case—what does it matter if he lied about something inconsequential?”
The reason it matters is that perjury is our only tool by which we can even reasonably hope a person does not lie in a trial. In Michigan, perjury—deliberately lying under oath— is a felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison.
Look, you can lie to your wife about having an affair. You can lie to the papers. You can lie to Entertainment Tonight. But when we have you in the stand—by golly, we expect the truth! Because THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is what a trial is designed to be—an exercise by which we determine what happened, as best we can with fallible human beings.
We understand you may not remember whether the car accident was on Tuesday or Wednesday. That is not perjury—that is simply being human. Or you may not remember where you were headed that day. But to repeatedly meet a woman in a hotel, and send love note after note, and received love note after love note, and if you had an affair over a period of years—it is not “simply forgetting” to say you didn’t have an affair! It is lying!
When we have a person in the stand, we have only two (2) primary ways to motivate them to tell the truth. First, if they fear we have a document or other testimony contradicting them. And second is perjury. Even if we have no way of finding out whether they are telling the truth, we want them so scared of going to prison—they chose to tell the truth anyway.
We want the witness thinking, “I may be able to lie here, but if I am ever caught, I could face up to 15 years in prison and it is simply not worth it. No matter how much money may be at stake, no matter how much this may hurt, I don’t want to go to prison over an untruth.”
The last thing we want is the witness thinking, “Meh…’under oath’? Big deal, I can lie here just as easily as lying anywhere else.” In order for our system to have any integrity; in order to preserve the concept we are looking for truth within our trial, we must impose a tremendous sanction on those who would willingly violate truth. Otherwise the idea of trial loses all meaning. We may as well have an interesting debate over a beer, and then vote with a thumbs-up or a thumbs-down.
I know it is tempting to want to deal with the Mayor. Sure, it would be better for the city if he stepped down. Yes, this case is extremely economically expensive. But it is self-defeating to offer anything less than a plea to the charges with a significant sentence.
See, the reason plea-bargaining works is because of the threat of a trial. The idea that if we, as the defense, do not take the deal--the real possibility of a trial, with the witnesses telling the truth, will cause us more harm than agreeing to a deal. If, on the other hand, we can lie with no repercussions within a trial—why take the deal? “Get all your friends together. Create an alibi. Don’t worry—if they are lying they may receive a slap on the wrist, if anything at all.”
I am firmly convinced the easy road of offering a deal to this defendant is a significant step backwards within our ability to enforce truth-telling in the courtroom. We may as well throw out the oath entirely; replace “Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth?” with “Please tell the truth unless you don’t want to, ‘kay?”
For many reasons—some obvious, some not so obvious—plea bargaining is needed. If every case of every accused went to trial, our system would bog down. (If you don’t like jury duty now, when 90-95% of cases are negotiated prior to trial, imagine how many more times you would be called with such an increase of caseload!) We would need to hire more prosecutors (increase taxes), more judges (increase taxes), more court personnel (increase taxes) and build more courtrooms (increase taxes.)
And that is simply to get to the point of hearing a verdict! If we start to impose more sentences, we would need many more jails and prisons. Which would require…I don’t even have to say it, do I?
Let’s make this personal. While out one evening, some miscreant breaks into your home and steals your television. He is caught, charged, and now the prosecutor is offering to have the defendant plead guilty to a lesser offense, most likely receiving minimal or no jail time, some probation and then off he goes.
You probably are mad. And feel a little violated. It was your home—where your children and pets and spouse live. It was your television—you worked hard to earn the money to buy it. You no longer feel safe; you now triple-lock the doors. Who is this punk to waltz through so easily? The law says stealing a television from a home results in a certain crime and a certain punishment; why should they get a break?
But look at it in the bigger picture. While this fellow is (rightly) going through a trial for stealing a television, a child molester is not. Or a wife-beater. Or a rapist. What is a replaceable television as compared to the broken lives waiting for repair? While your criminal is sitting in prison—there are only so many beds. Jails, due to over-crowding, have the right to release prisoners early. Who do you want sitting in prison—a guy who stole a television or a guy who raped his own daughter?
Within the system we ask the victim to sacrifice their justice. As lawyers, judges, prosecutors and probation officers we see case after case after case. To the victim this may be their one and only brush with crime. To us it is case 9,473 out of 10,000. I can understand why the victim feels the system fails to adequately address their needs—they see it once and what they see is a lack of the criminal receiving the appropriate justice. We see it so many times, in order to make it even feasible we compromise over and over.
Unfortunately we have become jaded to the process. Now, everything is about “the deal.” Not the crime, not the victim, not justice—what is the best deal we can make and get out.
It has become too rare we say, “Enough. THIS crime will not ‘get the deal.’ This crime must be addressed.” The case of the Mayor of Detroit is an example of when we need to say “Enough.”
I heard on a news media, there are meetings by which the Mayor’s representatives are meeting with local officials to negotiate the possibility of his resignation in exchange for pleading guilty to a lesser crime. There was even a suggestion he could plead to a misdemeanor in order to keep his law license. (In Michigan, if you are convicted of a felony, your law license is automatically revoked.)
Because the community is tired of this Mayor, because it would be “best for the city,” it would not be surprising to see such a deal emerge. It is what the system does. I think we are slitting our own throats to allow this to happen. He should be tried, and if convicted, receive the appropriate sentence under the statute. Here is why:
You may need a little background. Detroit police officer Gary Brown was investigating an incident surrounding a party alleged to have happened at the Manoogian Mansion (home of the current Detroit Mayor) and as part of that incident, an alleged affair Mayor Kilpatrick was having with his chief of staff, Christine Beatty.
Deputy Brown was fired. He filed suit against the City of Detroit (and others) claiming he was wrongfully fired for doing his job, because he was investigating the Mayor. Mayor Kilpatrick testified repeatedly he had nothing to do with Deputy Brown’s firing and never had an affair with Ms. Beatty. Ms. Beatty testified she had nothing to do with the firing and no affair with Mayor Kilpatrick.
The jury was not persuaded, and awarded a mutli-million dollar verdict against the City of Detroit. The City appealed. In the process of the appeal, the case was settled for almost $9 Million.
It is now claimed that during the settlement negotiations, certain text messages were obtained by subpoena, which appear to completely contradict the Mayor’s testimony. The messages imply both an affair, as well as knowledge of Brown’s firing, and the reason for his being fired. It is claimed the reason the settlement was negotiated was under threat of these messages being released.
As it turns out, many of these messages were released anyway. The prosecutor for the county of Wayne (where Detroit is) decided to charge Mayor Kilpatrick with perjury—lying under oath. I was amazed (and appalled) to see many “human-on-the-street” interviews with citizens who said, “Aw, leave him alone” or “This was peripheral to the case—what does it matter if he lied about something inconsequential?”
The reason it matters is that perjury is our only tool by which we can even reasonably hope a person does not lie in a trial. In Michigan, perjury—deliberately lying under oath— is a felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison.
Look, you can lie to your wife about having an affair. You can lie to the papers. You can lie to Entertainment Tonight. But when we have you in the stand—by golly, we expect the truth! Because THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is what a trial is designed to be—an exercise by which we determine what happened, as best we can with fallible human beings.
We understand you may not remember whether the car accident was on Tuesday or Wednesday. That is not perjury—that is simply being human. Or you may not remember where you were headed that day. But to repeatedly meet a woman in a hotel, and send love note after note, and received love note after love note, and if you had an affair over a period of years—it is not “simply forgetting” to say you didn’t have an affair! It is lying!
When we have a person in the stand, we have only two (2) primary ways to motivate them to tell the truth. First, if they fear we have a document or other testimony contradicting them. And second is perjury. Even if we have no way of finding out whether they are telling the truth, we want them so scared of going to prison—they chose to tell the truth anyway.
We want the witness thinking, “I may be able to lie here, but if I am ever caught, I could face up to 15 years in prison and it is simply not worth it. No matter how much money may be at stake, no matter how much this may hurt, I don’t want to go to prison over an untruth.”
The last thing we want is the witness thinking, “Meh…’under oath’? Big deal, I can lie here just as easily as lying anywhere else.” In order for our system to have any integrity; in order to preserve the concept we are looking for truth within our trial, we must impose a tremendous sanction on those who would willingly violate truth. Otherwise the idea of trial loses all meaning. We may as well have an interesting debate over a beer, and then vote with a thumbs-up or a thumbs-down.
I know it is tempting to want to deal with the Mayor. Sure, it would be better for the city if he stepped down. Yes, this case is extremely economically expensive. But it is self-defeating to offer anything less than a plea to the charges with a significant sentence.
See, the reason plea-bargaining works is because of the threat of a trial. The idea that if we, as the defense, do not take the deal--the real possibility of a trial, with the witnesses telling the truth, will cause us more harm than agreeing to a deal. If, on the other hand, we can lie with no repercussions within a trial—why take the deal? “Get all your friends together. Create an alibi. Don’t worry—if they are lying they may receive a slap on the wrist, if anything at all.”
I am firmly convinced the easy road of offering a deal to this defendant is a significant step backwards within our ability to enforce truth-telling in the courtroom. We may as well throw out the oath entirely; replace “Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth?” with “Please tell the truth unless you don’t want to, ‘kay?”
Thursday, August 07, 2008
There was no Freedom of Speech in my Head
As a Christian we used the word “Faith.” A lot. It was a slippery little word to define; in fact we had sermons and books and classes and articles and meetings and whole series all designed to give insight into that five-letter word.
We knew it was the conduit by which we received salvation. “By grace you are saved, through faith….” Eph. 2:8. We were justified by faith. Rom. 3:28. It was not merely a belief, but a belief so strong it necessarily resulted in evident actions. James 2:14-20. It could heal. James 5:15. Matt. 8:9-13. Faith could control weather. Matt. 8:26
Faith could (hyperbolically) move a mountain. Matt. 17:20. It was not a one-time belief, or a passing thought, but something to be nourished; something to grow. Rom. 4:20; 2 Cor. 8:7
It was not irrational, but it was not rational either. It was more than just evidence. Heb. 11:1. It was “proof” of creation. Heb. 11:3. Without this thing called “faith” it was impossible to please God. Heb. 11:6
We understood it was a leap (not a blind leap) based upon incomplete data whereby our mind was fully convinced in a God doing…something. We made pithy statements like, “Faith is not thinking God can; but knowing God will.” Or “Faith is the light that guides you through darkness.” Yet even with these, we never quite understood how it worked. Thus the reason for repeated sermons, teachings and readings on how we had to have faith….whatever that meant.
And while we were never quite confident on the full definition of “faith” what we were confident was the antithesis of faith—its mortal enemy. Doubt. We believed in a God, even in a specific God with specific characteristics. And we felt the depth of our conviction was on a scale; with faith we became more fully convinced, with doubt we slid backwards to less conviction.
We didn’t want doubt. If faith pleased God, surely the opposite—doubt—would displease God. We placed ourselves on a treadmill in which the only acceptable speed was “faster.” More faith. To slow down—to have “doubt” was unacceptable. Curiously, to maintain speed was equally unacceptable. One could always have more faith. Never did we reach top speed.
So we struggled with how to become more faithful; but at least we knew what to avoid in the process. Moving backward. Having doubt.
That much we knew.
Don’t get me wrong—we knew we were human. Doubt would come; it was not expected we would never have any doubts at all. It was like a canker sore. As much as one doesn’t want one—one still gets them. And while we have medicines to reduce the symptoms of a canker sore; there is no insta-cure to make it “go away.” Doubt didn’t just disappear, sometimes it lingered. And over time, with persistence, the canker sore went away, as did doubt.
Of course, one of the simplest ways to not encounter doubt is to not contemplate the thought. We implemented the “avoid even the appearance of evil” in so many other ways, it was easy to cross-over into our thinking. Want to avoid drunkenness? Simple—never drink alcohol. Want to avoid lustful thoughts? Simple—impose strict dress codes on women so we never even see an ankle, let alone a leg or a thigh or a…
Avoid pre-marital sex? Never kiss, never hold hands and never, EVER dance!
In the same way, if you never contemplate the thought that Jesus might not be God, you never have to worry about entering the dungeon of doubt. Don’t even go in the door! If the thought of “Why, God, did you allow…” you learned to stop at the “did” because God was God. And to start questioning God was to start down the dangerous path of Doubt.
While the intellectual discussion of “Was Jesus God?” would be acceptable, to dare contemplate the actual possibility would not. Within our human mind, it is impossible to precisely differentiate between the intellectual discussion and the empathetic notion of an actual possibility. In order to discuss “Is the Earth flat?” we actually have to think about what the Earth would be like if it was flat.
This is part of the reason we only held such discussions with other Christians. We could debate, even vociferously, the concept of Jesus not being God, but none of us really believed it. We knew, at the end of our “debate” we would have convinced ourselves Jesus was God. It strengthened our faith; it didn’t introduce doubt. We read Christian books. Regardless of how the book started, or what was in the middle, we knew the ending would safely land us on non-doubting ground. The questions would be answered. The correct words stated to saturate any doubt we might have had.
Oh, we would read non-Christian books, too. But first we would put on our armors of Faith. We would question every word stated utilizing a firm Christian worldview. If it did not align exactly with our position (if it dared imply humanity was not completely depraved) we would be free to reject it and any premises resulting from it.
And if it did, by some unforeseeable trickery, manage to instill even an ounce of doubt we ran to any writing by a Christian that could even remotely dispute it and grasped on to the Christian writing with the strong arm of faith. Because we didn’t want doubt.
My mind was no beacon of Freedom of Speech. Far from it. I had censors firmly established, refusing to allow even the possibility of the question to form. I loved what I thought was a God. I was extremely thankful for the gift of salvation I thought I had received, not to mention the bountiful life I attributed to this God. It is remarkably uncomplicated that I wanted to please this God. I wanted this God to say, “That fellow is a keeper.” Faith pleased God. Doubt did not.
Who, in such a situation, would even want to dabble with idea of displeasing such a God? Daring to seriously consider alternate possibilities was, to me, like seeing how close I could hold my face to a running chainsaw before it chewed out my eyes. Unthinkable!
For many years those censors worked. Sometimes they worked overtime, but they worked. In fact, you might say they worked too well. My mind was so firmly convinced of the notions it held, I thought I was upon safe ground in discussing with non-believers.
Convince me? Ha! My mind was expert at sieving out the claims contrary to my views. I anticipated I could compartmentalize the intellectual discussion from the conviction of persuasion. I only needed to understand the arguments; not be persuaded by them.
I gave the censors the night off. I allowed Freedom of Speech in my head. Not just the words, but the rationales behind the words, the depth of the arguments, the actual working with the hands of my mind to immerse into what the skeptic was saying.
And I found out that doubt is a good thing. It was so indoctrinated into me, when all this time my brain was saying, “This doesn’t make sense. You need to study this more.”
Sometimes our brain is saying, “Wait a minute. That ain’t right.” My youngest child will stand on the roof of our house; contemplate wind velocity, distance, height, etc. to determine what direction she must jump to correctly land on our trampoline, spring up and land in our pool. Me? I would have some serious doubting going on, envisioning all the horrible ways that plan could go wrong! Her? Not a doubt in her mind.
I see now part of the floundering of the discussion between non-believers and believers is that in even having the discussion we are asking the believer to dare doubt. To have less faith. To do the thing that displeases their God.
We knew it was the conduit by which we received salvation. “By grace you are saved, through faith….” Eph. 2:8. We were justified by faith. Rom. 3:28. It was not merely a belief, but a belief so strong it necessarily resulted in evident actions. James 2:14-20. It could heal. James 5:15. Matt. 8:9-13. Faith could control weather. Matt. 8:26
Faith could (hyperbolically) move a mountain. Matt. 17:20. It was not a one-time belief, or a passing thought, but something to be nourished; something to grow. Rom. 4:20; 2 Cor. 8:7
It was not irrational, but it was not rational either. It was more than just evidence. Heb. 11:1. It was “proof” of creation. Heb. 11:3. Without this thing called “faith” it was impossible to please God. Heb. 11:6
We understood it was a leap (not a blind leap) based upon incomplete data whereby our mind was fully convinced in a God doing…something. We made pithy statements like, “Faith is not thinking God can; but knowing God will.” Or “Faith is the light that guides you through darkness.” Yet even with these, we never quite understood how it worked. Thus the reason for repeated sermons, teachings and readings on how we had to have faith….whatever that meant.
And while we were never quite confident on the full definition of “faith” what we were confident was the antithesis of faith—its mortal enemy. Doubt. We believed in a God, even in a specific God with specific characteristics. And we felt the depth of our conviction was on a scale; with faith we became more fully convinced, with doubt we slid backwards to less conviction.
We didn’t want doubt. If faith pleased God, surely the opposite—doubt—would displease God. We placed ourselves on a treadmill in which the only acceptable speed was “faster.” More faith. To slow down—to have “doubt” was unacceptable. Curiously, to maintain speed was equally unacceptable. One could always have more faith. Never did we reach top speed.
So we struggled with how to become more faithful; but at least we knew what to avoid in the process. Moving backward. Having doubt.
That much we knew.
Don’t get me wrong—we knew we were human. Doubt would come; it was not expected we would never have any doubts at all. It was like a canker sore. As much as one doesn’t want one—one still gets them. And while we have medicines to reduce the symptoms of a canker sore; there is no insta-cure to make it “go away.” Doubt didn’t just disappear, sometimes it lingered. And over time, with persistence, the canker sore went away, as did doubt.
Of course, one of the simplest ways to not encounter doubt is to not contemplate the thought. We implemented the “avoid even the appearance of evil” in so many other ways, it was easy to cross-over into our thinking. Want to avoid drunkenness? Simple—never drink alcohol. Want to avoid lustful thoughts? Simple—impose strict dress codes on women so we never even see an ankle, let alone a leg or a thigh or a…
Avoid pre-marital sex? Never kiss, never hold hands and never, EVER dance!
In the same way, if you never contemplate the thought that Jesus might not be God, you never have to worry about entering the dungeon of doubt. Don’t even go in the door! If the thought of “Why, God, did you allow…” you learned to stop at the “did” because God was God. And to start questioning God was to start down the dangerous path of Doubt.
While the intellectual discussion of “Was Jesus God?” would be acceptable, to dare contemplate the actual possibility would not. Within our human mind, it is impossible to precisely differentiate between the intellectual discussion and the empathetic notion of an actual possibility. In order to discuss “Is the Earth flat?” we actually have to think about what the Earth would be like if it was flat.
This is part of the reason we only held such discussions with other Christians. We could debate, even vociferously, the concept of Jesus not being God, but none of us really believed it. We knew, at the end of our “debate” we would have convinced ourselves Jesus was God. It strengthened our faith; it didn’t introduce doubt. We read Christian books. Regardless of how the book started, or what was in the middle, we knew the ending would safely land us on non-doubting ground. The questions would be answered. The correct words stated to saturate any doubt we might have had.
Oh, we would read non-Christian books, too. But first we would put on our armors of Faith. We would question every word stated utilizing a firm Christian worldview. If it did not align exactly with our position (if it dared imply humanity was not completely depraved) we would be free to reject it and any premises resulting from it.
And if it did, by some unforeseeable trickery, manage to instill even an ounce of doubt we ran to any writing by a Christian that could even remotely dispute it and grasped on to the Christian writing with the strong arm of faith. Because we didn’t want doubt.
My mind was no beacon of Freedom of Speech. Far from it. I had censors firmly established, refusing to allow even the possibility of the question to form. I loved what I thought was a God. I was extremely thankful for the gift of salvation I thought I had received, not to mention the bountiful life I attributed to this God. It is remarkably uncomplicated that I wanted to please this God. I wanted this God to say, “That fellow is a keeper.” Faith pleased God. Doubt did not.
Who, in such a situation, would even want to dabble with idea of displeasing such a God? Daring to seriously consider alternate possibilities was, to me, like seeing how close I could hold my face to a running chainsaw before it chewed out my eyes. Unthinkable!
For many years those censors worked. Sometimes they worked overtime, but they worked. In fact, you might say they worked too well. My mind was so firmly convinced of the notions it held, I thought I was upon safe ground in discussing with non-believers.
Convince me? Ha! My mind was expert at sieving out the claims contrary to my views. I anticipated I could compartmentalize the intellectual discussion from the conviction of persuasion. I only needed to understand the arguments; not be persuaded by them.
I gave the censors the night off. I allowed Freedom of Speech in my head. Not just the words, but the rationales behind the words, the depth of the arguments, the actual working with the hands of my mind to immerse into what the skeptic was saying.
And I found out that doubt is a good thing. It was so indoctrinated into me, when all this time my brain was saying, “This doesn’t make sense. You need to study this more.”
Sometimes our brain is saying, “Wait a minute. That ain’t right.” My youngest child will stand on the roof of our house; contemplate wind velocity, distance, height, etc. to determine what direction she must jump to correctly land on our trampoline, spring up and land in our pool. Me? I would have some serious doubting going on, envisioning all the horrible ways that plan could go wrong! Her? Not a doubt in her mind.
I see now part of the floundering of the discussion between non-believers and believers is that in even having the discussion we are asking the believer to dare doubt. To have less faith. To do the thing that displeases their God.
Monday, August 04, 2008
Yesterday’s Prayer List
Many churches, back before the internet, had a Prayer List. It was a sheet of paper listing out the current crop of ill, unemployed, or general requests for prayer needed for such mundane things as homes, or cars or recent graduates.
Of course, as people healed, or obtained a job or weren’t graduating from anything, they dropped off the Prayer List for the next needee individuals.
As the proverbial entertainment industry operates, they became yesterday’s news. Today’s blockbuster movie, smashing box-office records, becomes tomorrow’s DVD, and next week’s “Special” and by next month will be in the “$1.99” bin alongside Splash.
When my deconversion initially filtered through the church network, I jumped to the head of the Prayer List. Maybe not the actual paper one (too embarrassing for my family) but the secret Prayer List known to the select few—the one the Pastors and Elders and Deacons knew about and no one else.
They prayed and they prayed and they prayed. They prayed their guts out. And over time…nothing happened. I didn’t come bounding back to Jesus. Turns out this wasn’t a “phase.” I simply stayed not-a-Christian.
Worse, I didn’t pick up any new habits to pray for. No drunken rampages. No divorce. Didn’t lose my job. Didn’t become sick. I became quite boring to pray for. How many times can one say, “God, I wish that feller was saved. Again.”?
I have been relegated to being on yesterday’s prayer list. Old news. Sure, just like the occasional odd movie IS rummaged out of the $1.99 bin, dusted off, and lovingly purchased, I suspect my name equally occasionally is dropped in a prayer every other month or so. But at this point I think the person’s God knows what the person wants. There isn’t any new way to say it.
Just like finding out someone lost their job. Initially everyone feels badly and prays quite extensively for them. As the weeks of unemployment drag out to months, it is human nature to lose the beginning exuberance. We go from “Poor Jim” to “Jim still hasn’t found a job?” Soon it is “There must be something wrong for Jim to not have work by now!”
I was just as guilty. When going through my deconversion, at first I prayed and prayed and prayed that God would help me through it—reveal himself to me. But after a while, I lost the words to say. How many times could I say, “God, I want to know you. Help my unbelief.”? If God didn’t realize it the first time, he certainly didn’t need to hear it 1,094 times more. For all the people that think we deconverts let go too soon—remember we are just as human as you. Are you as faithful praying for “Sara’s Aunt” who was diagnosed with cancer after 2 weeks? 2 months? 2 years? Of course not—we move on. We find new things to pray for.
Why would a God need to hear the same request over and over? If there was a God, and he had been watching humanity for only a few years, I think he got the point we don’t want our grandparents to die of cancer. Does this God really need reminding from Wednesday to Thursday that I don’t want grandpa to die? Does this God need a new Prayer list to smack himself on the head and say “What? Jim wants a job? Gosh, the first 16 weeks he was on that prayer list, I thought they were just kidding!!”
To some extent, I am glad I am off the Prayer list. People should be doing better things with their time than wasting breath, talking to a non-existent being doing non-existent things. On the other hand, I am a bit saddened by it. Because it makes me yesterday’s Prayer list. Old news. Forgotten.
Ah well. Such is the life cycle of a Prayer List individual.
Of course, as people healed, or obtained a job or weren’t graduating from anything, they dropped off the Prayer List for the next needee individuals.
As the proverbial entertainment industry operates, they became yesterday’s news. Today’s blockbuster movie, smashing box-office records, becomes tomorrow’s DVD, and next week’s “Special” and by next month will be in the “$1.99” bin alongside Splash.
When my deconversion initially filtered through the church network, I jumped to the head of the Prayer List. Maybe not the actual paper one (too embarrassing for my family) but the secret Prayer List known to the select few—the one the Pastors and Elders and Deacons knew about and no one else.
They prayed and they prayed and they prayed. They prayed their guts out. And over time…nothing happened. I didn’t come bounding back to Jesus. Turns out this wasn’t a “phase.” I simply stayed not-a-Christian.
Worse, I didn’t pick up any new habits to pray for. No drunken rampages. No divorce. Didn’t lose my job. Didn’t become sick. I became quite boring to pray for. How many times can one say, “God, I wish that feller was saved. Again.”?
I have been relegated to being on yesterday’s prayer list. Old news. Sure, just like the occasional odd movie IS rummaged out of the $1.99 bin, dusted off, and lovingly purchased, I suspect my name equally occasionally is dropped in a prayer every other month or so. But at this point I think the person’s God knows what the person wants. There isn’t any new way to say it.
Just like finding out someone lost their job. Initially everyone feels badly and prays quite extensively for them. As the weeks of unemployment drag out to months, it is human nature to lose the beginning exuberance. We go from “Poor Jim” to “Jim still hasn’t found a job?” Soon it is “There must be something wrong for Jim to not have work by now!”
I was just as guilty. When going through my deconversion, at first I prayed and prayed and prayed that God would help me through it—reveal himself to me. But after a while, I lost the words to say. How many times could I say, “God, I want to know you. Help my unbelief.”? If God didn’t realize it the first time, he certainly didn’t need to hear it 1,094 times more. For all the people that think we deconverts let go too soon—remember we are just as human as you. Are you as faithful praying for “Sara’s Aunt” who was diagnosed with cancer after 2 weeks? 2 months? 2 years? Of course not—we move on. We find new things to pray for.
Why would a God need to hear the same request over and over? If there was a God, and he had been watching humanity for only a few years, I think he got the point we don’t want our grandparents to die of cancer. Does this God really need reminding from Wednesday to Thursday that I don’t want grandpa to die? Does this God need a new Prayer list to smack himself on the head and say “What? Jim wants a job? Gosh, the first 16 weeks he was on that prayer list, I thought they were just kidding!!”
To some extent, I am glad I am off the Prayer list. People should be doing better things with their time than wasting breath, talking to a non-existent being doing non-existent things. On the other hand, I am a bit saddened by it. Because it makes me yesterday’s Prayer list. Old news. Forgotten.
Ah well. Such is the life cycle of a Prayer List individual.
Wednesday, July 23, 2008
Minimum Faith Required
Yet again, I found myself listening to Dr. Moore on Albert Mohler’s radio program. The discussion was on Charismatic Healings such as the recent influx of stories regarding Todd Bentley. One of the concerns with this situation was the claim, “You will be healed if you have enough faith.” It was mentioned how detrimental this could be, since the lack of healing would always be blamed on the victim…er…”healee” who could eventually question their spiritual health by feeling they did not have enough faith.
As a Conservative Protestant, the circles I traveled in did not believe in these healings. As a Christian, I thought Benny Hinn was a fake. The same people would find Bentley a fake. It wasn’t that the person did not have enough faith—it was that God wasn’t doing any of this flim-flammery. It was solely a human response to a human interaction.
We didn’t question the person’s faith—we questioned whether the god portrayed (healing by kicking people in the face) actually existed.
As I listened it struck me that the very people who recognized it was not the person’s lack of faith, but rather the lack of such a god existing, are often the same people who tell me it was my lack of faith which prevented me from finding their particular god.
Isn’t it much the same thing? If you believe a person can have the strongest of beliefs that there exists a god who heals with a “Pow!--couldn’t a person equally have the strongest of beliefs that other god(s) exist?
We realized the failure to heal was not based upon the person’s strength of beliefs; it came from no god showing up. Even as a theist, we saw that. In the same way—my loss of belief did not come from not having a similar strength of belief. It came from no god showing up.
As a Conservative Protestant, the circles I traveled in did not believe in these healings. As a Christian, I thought Benny Hinn was a fake. The same people would find Bentley a fake. It wasn’t that the person did not have enough faith—it was that God wasn’t doing any of this flim-flammery. It was solely a human response to a human interaction.
We didn’t question the person’s faith—we questioned whether the god portrayed (healing by kicking people in the face) actually existed.
As I listened it struck me that the very people who recognized it was not the person’s lack of faith, but rather the lack of such a god existing, are often the same people who tell me it was my lack of faith which prevented me from finding their particular god.
Isn’t it much the same thing? If you believe a person can have the strongest of beliefs that there exists a god who heals with a “Pow!--couldn’t a person equally have the strongest of beliefs that other god(s) exist?
We realized the failure to heal was not based upon the person’s strength of beliefs; it came from no god showing up. Even as a theist, we saw that. In the same way—my loss of belief did not come from not having a similar strength of belief. It came from no god showing up.
Monday, July 21, 2008
“Being Atheist” is Not Who I Am
“Who are you?” The answer to that question can differ depending on your location, time, place and person. At a wedding, we answer that question in relation to the happy couple. “I am the groom’s friend.” “I am the bride’s cousin.” Or at our children’s events—in relation to our child. “I am Bob’s father.”
When taking a personality test, we respond with a set of letters like “ESTJ” that is supposed to provide meaning and insight regarding “Who am I?” Upon interacting with people, we constantly take mental inventory, checking off items, to better determine who the person is.
“Prefers vanilla over chocolate. Check.”
“Doesn’t like dogs. Check.”
“Doesn’t know the words to the song, but will sing loud and proud what they think the lyrics are. Check.”
For over 32 years, who I was consisted of being a Christian. It was a part of every molecule within my body. That meant I relied upon a God to direct my life. New Job? New Wife? New House? A God, somewhere in the cosmos, was intimately concerned and involved with each of those situations in my life.
I derived my morals from what I thought a God was saying—specifically the Protestant Bible. I searched out friends who held similar Christian beliefs, with similar morals, similar Christian goals, and similar Christian emotions. When moving to a new city, we immediately sought out a new church—why? To find others who answered, “Who am I?” in a comparative fashion. And the base foundation of kindred spirit would have to be that they are a Christian. Because this was core to who I was.
When I deconverted (it was four years ago I was in the process. Wow.), it is unremarkable I continued to desire the same relations with the same persons. Despite what you may read in the Christian papers—we don’t deconvert to begin a new life of crime, sin and immorality. We have much the same morals. The same concerns. The same guilt of breaching our moral code. It is no surprise, then, we would want to continue to associate with those who retained the same similarities.
Looking back, I shouldn’t be shocked that Christians wanted no part of this “new” association with me. I (as a Christian) wouldn’t have wanted an association with some new atheist. Atheists were immoral, grumpy, unlearned, anti-god, anti-good, anti-everything-I-wanted-to-be. In answer to the question “Who are you?” they were so far on the opposite end of the spectrum, we could hardly find common ground.
Each year, I go to my wife’s employment work party. There, people answer the question “Who are you?” in one of two fashions. Either you answer by what department you are in (“I am a nurse.”) OR you answer by your relation to the employee followed by what department they are in (“I am the husband of Diane, who is a nurse.”) So we sit at a large table with employees from various departments, and their relations. Nurse with nurse’s spouse. Occupational therapists with occupational therapist’s boyfriend. Secretary alone. And so on.
We have all been to such occasions. What do we do? Although there is only the slimmest commonality, we talk and laugh and joke and get along as best we can. Do we plan a get-together the following Saturday with the same people? Of course not! We return to the friends who are far more like us.
It is much the same level of interaction between Christians and atheists. We could get together for a time, share a few laughs; but in the end we would return back to our own kind. I watched my friends start to pull away from me. The Checklist of similarities just dropped “Christian”—such a huge part of their lives, they were no longer interested in associating with me.
I tried to continue with church, to keep the same friendships. It didn’t work. And not only because of Christians—I was no longer interested in the same subjects. I could only take “Yippee Jesus!” so long. The people wanted to revel in an inspired Bible, and I wanted to discuss why they thought it was inspired, why they thought Paul even wrote 2 Timothy, and their understanding of the compound Greek word which was translated “inspiration.”
So I did the natural thing we all do—looked for friendships amongst atheists. But I found I did not really fit in there, either. I was informed (sometimes subtly, sometimes not so much) how I had to be outraged at the label of “Christmas Tree” for the pine in front of our State Capitol. How a cement block with the 10 Commandments will over turn society as I know it. How “under God” within the Pledge of Allegiance to the American Flag is oppressive.
I understand these things are important to people…but not to me. My atheism is not dogmatically caught up in separation of Church and State. My atheism consists of being persuaded by the evidence there is no god.
To me, it is as remarkable as the fact I am equally not convinced in Big Foot, Yeti’s, or the Loch Ness Monster. When asked, “Who are you?” we rarely start proclaiming all the things we don’t believe.
“I am a person who thinks UFO’s are bunk.”
“I do not think 9/11 was a U.S. Governmental conspiracy.”
We tend to think of who we are in terms of what we believe—not what we don’t. I believe in living life to the fullest. I believe in enjoying moments, even tough moments, and appreciating them for what they are. I believe there is no such thing as learning too much. And that every person has something to teach.
Part of who I am is a person who loves to discuss Christianity on-line. I enjoy the interaction—the nuance, the new thoughts. I don’t bother in real life because it is too painful a reminder to those I would discuss. Here, on the internet, I think of myself in terms of a label of “atheist.” Because I am so rarely placed in situations where such a label is useful, I don’t as much when not on-line.
As a Christian, my theistic belief defined every element within my life. It defined how I lived, who I lived with, and who I wanted to spend time living with. My lack of theistic belief, I am finding, is less defining in those regards. My lack of theistic belief does not define my morals. It does not define my relationships with others. It doesn’t define who I am.
It says something about me—sure. But it doesn’t demand direction from me. I find it as noteworthy as my preference for carrot cake. I love carrot cake (no nuts; no raisins.) Yet my love for carrot cake does not force me to choose certain people to spend time with; it does not demand I act in certain ways. It means, given the chance, I prefer carrot cake. That’s all.
I don’t mind the label “atheist”—but that is all it is. Exterior. Limited in its use. And something that removed would not change the essence that is me.
When taking a personality test, we respond with a set of letters like “ESTJ” that is supposed to provide meaning and insight regarding “Who am I?” Upon interacting with people, we constantly take mental inventory, checking off items, to better determine who the person is.
“Prefers vanilla over chocolate. Check.”
“Doesn’t like dogs. Check.”
“Doesn’t know the words to the song, but will sing loud and proud what they think the lyrics are. Check.”
For over 32 years, who I was consisted of being a Christian. It was a part of every molecule within my body. That meant I relied upon a God to direct my life. New Job? New Wife? New House? A God, somewhere in the cosmos, was intimately concerned and involved with each of those situations in my life.
I derived my morals from what I thought a God was saying—specifically the Protestant Bible. I searched out friends who held similar Christian beliefs, with similar morals, similar Christian goals, and similar Christian emotions. When moving to a new city, we immediately sought out a new church—why? To find others who answered, “Who am I?” in a comparative fashion. And the base foundation of kindred spirit would have to be that they are a Christian. Because this was core to who I was.
When I deconverted (it was four years ago I was in the process. Wow.), it is unremarkable I continued to desire the same relations with the same persons. Despite what you may read in the Christian papers—we don’t deconvert to begin a new life of crime, sin and immorality. We have much the same morals. The same concerns. The same guilt of breaching our moral code. It is no surprise, then, we would want to continue to associate with those who retained the same similarities.
Looking back, I shouldn’t be shocked that Christians wanted no part of this “new” association with me. I (as a Christian) wouldn’t have wanted an association with some new atheist. Atheists were immoral, grumpy, unlearned, anti-god, anti-good, anti-everything-I-wanted-to-be. In answer to the question “Who are you?” they were so far on the opposite end of the spectrum, we could hardly find common ground.
Each year, I go to my wife’s employment work party. There, people answer the question “Who are you?” in one of two fashions. Either you answer by what department you are in (“I am a nurse.”) OR you answer by your relation to the employee followed by what department they are in (“I am the husband of Diane, who is a nurse.”) So we sit at a large table with employees from various departments, and their relations. Nurse with nurse’s spouse. Occupational therapists with occupational therapist’s boyfriend. Secretary alone. And so on.
We have all been to such occasions. What do we do? Although there is only the slimmest commonality, we talk and laugh and joke and get along as best we can. Do we plan a get-together the following Saturday with the same people? Of course not! We return to the friends who are far more like us.
It is much the same level of interaction between Christians and atheists. We could get together for a time, share a few laughs; but in the end we would return back to our own kind. I watched my friends start to pull away from me. The Checklist of similarities just dropped “Christian”—such a huge part of their lives, they were no longer interested in associating with me.
I tried to continue with church, to keep the same friendships. It didn’t work. And not only because of Christians—I was no longer interested in the same subjects. I could only take “Yippee Jesus!” so long. The people wanted to revel in an inspired Bible, and I wanted to discuss why they thought it was inspired, why they thought Paul even wrote 2 Timothy, and their understanding of the compound Greek word which was translated “inspiration.”
So I did the natural thing we all do—looked for friendships amongst atheists. But I found I did not really fit in there, either. I was informed (sometimes subtly, sometimes not so much) how I had to be outraged at the label of “Christmas Tree” for the pine in front of our State Capitol. How a cement block with the 10 Commandments will over turn society as I know it. How “under God” within the Pledge of Allegiance to the American Flag is oppressive.
I understand these things are important to people…but not to me. My atheism is not dogmatically caught up in separation of Church and State. My atheism consists of being persuaded by the evidence there is no god.
To me, it is as remarkable as the fact I am equally not convinced in Big Foot, Yeti’s, or the Loch Ness Monster. When asked, “Who are you?” we rarely start proclaiming all the things we don’t believe.
“I am a person who thinks UFO’s are bunk.”
“I do not think 9/11 was a U.S. Governmental conspiracy.”
We tend to think of who we are in terms of what we believe—not what we don’t. I believe in living life to the fullest. I believe in enjoying moments, even tough moments, and appreciating them for what they are. I believe there is no such thing as learning too much. And that every person has something to teach.
Part of who I am is a person who loves to discuss Christianity on-line. I enjoy the interaction—the nuance, the new thoughts. I don’t bother in real life because it is too painful a reminder to those I would discuss. Here, on the internet, I think of myself in terms of a label of “atheist.” Because I am so rarely placed in situations where such a label is useful, I don’t as much when not on-line.
As a Christian, my theistic belief defined every element within my life. It defined how I lived, who I lived with, and who I wanted to spend time living with. My lack of theistic belief, I am finding, is less defining in those regards. My lack of theistic belief does not define my morals. It does not define my relationships with others. It doesn’t define who I am.
It says something about me—sure. But it doesn’t demand direction from me. I find it as noteworthy as my preference for carrot cake. I love carrot cake (no nuts; no raisins.) Yet my love for carrot cake does not force me to choose certain people to spend time with; it does not demand I act in certain ways. It means, given the chance, I prefer carrot cake. That’s all.
I don’t mind the label “atheist”—but that is all it is. Exterior. Limited in its use. And something that removed would not change the essence that is me.
Monday, July 14, 2008
Useless Conversations
We’ve all had ‘em. We recognize fairly quickly the other person has no interest in actually communicating with us, as much as talking at us. The other day I was conversing (in the loosest sense of the word) with a person who was upset about something that had nothing to do with the conversation.
Me: I understand you are upset—
Person: I am NOT upset! I just DON’T understand why they would DO that! And without consulting me! No one does that! THEN I come to find out about THIS!
Me: Well, we talked about it, remem---?
Person: No, YOU didn’t talk about it—not with ME. We NEVER talked about it! This is something I NEEDED to know about, and you NEVER said anything…
Me: Mmm.
I retreated to the non-committal grunt, because the other person was not having this conversation to obtain information from me, or discuss the issue with me—they wanted to rant at me. And there is no gain trying to have a rationale conversation when a person is in such a mood.
I happened upon another such conversation. Let me set the scene…
Thursday, Dr. Russell Moore was guest hosting on Dr. Mohler’s radio program. The topic was Michael Dowd’s book Thank God for Evolution. From what I could gather, an attempt to marry the theory of Evolution with the theology of Christianity. Of course, Dr. Moore was having none of that!
And at one point Dr. Moore opined Rev. Dowd’s book was actually leading people away from Christianity. This prompted “Ash,” a deconvert from Florida, to call in. Ash admitted he had not heard the entire program, but had heard the comment regarding evolution leading people away from Christianity. Ash stated among all the deconverts he knew, evolution was very rarely the reason for a person to deconvert.
[As a note, I would have to agree with Ash. While the study of science and realization of the mischaracterization of evolution by Christianity has certainly lead to some deconverts, it would be a very distinct minority.]
Now this could have lead to an interesting discussion. Dr. Moore could have asked a number of questions:
“What IS the primary cause of a person to deconvert?”
“Why ISN’T evolution a primary cause?”
“Do you think, as an atheist, evolution can be married to Christianity?”
And so on. Instead, Dr. Moore engaged in the following conversation:
Need I point out how condescending and rude this remark is? I think not! When Dr. Moore asked the question, “Why did you embrace atheism?”—he was not interested in Ash’s answer. He wanted to engage in useless pontification as to all the reasons Dr. Moore was quite certain atheists are atheists. (And apparently the reason for evolution, too—so we can sin!)
Think about the statement, “The issue isn’t evidence.” It isn’t? All those apologists like Dr. Craig, and J.P. Moreland and Lee Strobel and Dr. Plantinga must be quite surprised their books and articles and websites and debates are all for naught. The next time Dr. Habermas is debating another philosophy professor regarding the resurrection of Christ, according to Dr. Moore, he need not bother with such silly notions as evidence, or the New Testament writings, or the actions of the people of the time. Oh, my no! All Dr. Habermas need say is, “The reason you {insert Professor’s name here} don’t believe is that you want to Sin, Sin, Sin! I do not need to show an ounce of evidence—you need to stop sinning!”
Dr. Metzger, Dr. Wallace, Dr. Ehrman. Textual Criticism? Waste of time. The reason we know Dr. Ehrman is wrong, is because he wants to sin. Drs. Wallace and Metzger do (did) not. Don’t you see?
Why is it when Christians want to talk about the reasons they believe, they love to drag out the “evidence” of the alleged eyewitness testimonies, the archeological facts which refer to events in the Bible, or non-Christian writings regarding Christians in the first Century? Yet when we want to inspect such evidence, we are told we aren’t rejecting it because of our study—oh, no! We are rejecting it because of our secret desire to keep our pimp hand strong.
The reality is that humans are complicated creatures. We don’t all march to one tune. There is no “one thing” that persuades all humans. Some Christians believe because of evidence; some non-Christians believe for the same reasons. Some Christians believe because of an emotional experience; same is true for non-Christians. Some Christians believe because of moral implications; same is true for non-Christians.
For the Christian, imagine this, if you can. What if they discovered a First Century authenticated copy of Matthew in which Jesus says it is acceptable to divorce your spouse for any reason? Yes, it would turn textual criticism on its ear—but more importantly would every Christian rush right out and get a divorce?
Of course not! Most would stay married because they are married to their spouse for MORE than just the reason that divorce is a sin. Things like commitment, love, a genuine desire to be married to the other person, the detriments of divorce, children, social stigma, etc.
It is absolutely ridiculous to make the claim the ONLY reason Christians stay married is that divorce is a sin. The same way it is equally ridiculous the ONLY reason people reject Christianity is to sin. I didn’t have any desire to obtain a new lifestyle of pillaging small villages, so “Christianity had to go.” Quite the contrary—I desired with my whole-heart to keep Christianity! It had nothing to do with sin. The same way we desire to keep our marriages—it has nothing to do with the concern of “sin” of divorce—we do it because we want our marriage!
Likewise, the statement, “…I think you know there is certain fiery expectation of judgment” is truly inane. Do you know why people don’t murder? Because they don’t want to go to jail. Why they don’t swipe items from the store? Because they don’t want to go to jail. Why people stop at a stop light at 2 in the morning when they can clearly see for miles around there isn’t a blooming car in sight? Because they don’t want a ticket.
Punishment is a strong motivator.
This past year my oldest daughter received a two-day involuntary vacation from school. (I.e.—a suspension.) When questioned, she said, “I couldn’t help it. I reached my breaking point.” I explained to her when her parents were done punishing for the offense—she would amazingly discover she had a much higher breaking point than she realized. That her “breaking point” will reach new heights so when she was faced with a similar situation she would think, “No, this is not worth it, because my punishment will be more pain than the momentary pleasure.”
Some of us drive over the speed limit. Why? Because the punishment (a ticket) is not severe enough to cause us to not. If they started to impose Capital Punishment for speeders—we would stop!
Why do we slow down when we see a police officer on the side of the road? Because we “know” we are in danger of getting a ticket. Who has the guts to blow past an officer at 100 miles per hour, thinking they won’t get caught?
Imagine knowing the punishment of fire. Of burning alive. Of sheer, excruciating pain covering our entire body, from the top of head, to our armpits, to our delicate parts, down to our toes. Of the inside of your throat swallowing boiling tar. Imagine that for 30 seconds. For a minute. For a half an hour. We can’t even exercise for a half-an-hour; let alone endure such torture!
If we really “knew” such judgment was coming—don’t you think we would do everything in our power to avoid it? Let alone an eternity of it! Pick one or the other. It is curious we are told we are so selfish we refuse to acknowledge a God because we want to sin; if we were that selfish, wouldn’t we do everything we could for our own comfort? And highest on that list would be to avoid hell!
Even though there is the possibility of becoming rich, we don’t steal from banks because of the punishment; we certainly aren’t going to reject what we “secretly” know is true in order to commit some perceived sin when the punishment is far more terrible. Besides, as Christians, we are informed due to our sin nature, we will continue to sin anyway and will be forgiven. What is the point of giving up Christianity to sin, when we don’t have to give up Christianity to sin?
I “hate the light”? Bwahahahaha. Explain why every single pastor I have discussed my deconversion will be “getting back to me.” If it is me, the darkness, “running from the light” it sure is odd how the light won’t call me back. Every Christian leader I talked to—I’m waiting to get back to me. My entire Christian family—no response to me e-mails on the topic. The church I attended, “We don’t really have a place for you.”
This “darkness” is extremely amused to be told I am running from the light. No, that is the light running from me, and from their perspective and speed, it only looks as if the widening distance is my fault.
I am less inclined to continue such conversations. You want to state I didn’t believe in Christ as Savior and God with the same intensity as “true Christians”? Useless conversation. You want to claim the Bible as authoritative, but don’t even know the history of its formation? Fine, we can learn together. However it becomes a useless conversation when you say, “The Bible says it; I believe it; that settles it.”
You want me to read Christian authors (many of whom I already have) but you are not interested in reading scientists? Useless conversation.
I know we are so caught-up on the web, we feel we HAVE to point out every wrong. Every error. Thus assuring the longevity of useless conversations.
Me: I understand you are upset—
Person: I am NOT upset! I just DON’T understand why they would DO that! And without consulting me! No one does that! THEN I come to find out about THIS!
Me: Well, we talked about it, remem---?
Person: No, YOU didn’t talk about it—not with ME. We NEVER talked about it! This is something I NEEDED to know about, and you NEVER said anything…
Me: Mmm.
I retreated to the non-committal grunt, because the other person was not having this conversation to obtain information from me, or discuss the issue with me—they wanted to rant at me. And there is no gain trying to have a rationale conversation when a person is in such a mood.
I happened upon another such conversation. Let me set the scene…
Thursday, Dr. Russell Moore was guest hosting on Dr. Mohler’s radio program. The topic was Michael Dowd’s book Thank God for Evolution. From what I could gather, an attempt to marry the theory of Evolution with the theology of Christianity. Of course, Dr. Moore was having none of that!
And at one point Dr. Moore opined Rev. Dowd’s book was actually leading people away from Christianity. This prompted “Ash,” a deconvert from Florida, to call in. Ash admitted he had not heard the entire program, but had heard the comment regarding evolution leading people away from Christianity. Ash stated among all the deconverts he knew, evolution was very rarely the reason for a person to deconvert.
[As a note, I would have to agree with Ash. While the study of science and realization of the mischaracterization of evolution by Christianity has certainly lead to some deconverts, it would be a very distinct minority.]
Now this could have lead to an interesting discussion. Dr. Moore could have asked a number of questions:
“What IS the primary cause of a person to deconvert?”
“Why ISN’T evolution a primary cause?”
“Do you think, as an atheist, evolution can be married to Christianity?”
And so on. Instead, Dr. Moore engaged in the following conversation:
Dr. Moore: Why did you embrace atheism?
Ash: [after discussing how everyone is an atheist toward some God, Zeus, Allah, etc.]….For me it was the lack of evidence.
Dr. Moore: I think it was more than that, Ash; and I going to pray you’ll come to know the god that reveals his glory through Jesus Christ. But I think your issue is the same as mine was and the same Michael Dowd’s is, and the same as the Apostle Paul said his was before that Damascus road. I think you know there’s a god, I think you know there is certain fiery expectation of judgment. I just think exactly as the Apostle John says, “The light comes into the world and the men hate the light and they love the darkness” and why? Because their deeds are evil and they want to cover it over…
The issue isn’t evidence. The issue instead is exactly what Paul is talking about in Romans chapter one, “Although they knew God as God they would not honor him or give thanks.” That’s the issue. So what do they do? They turn to the Creation instead of the Creator…
Need I point out how condescending and rude this remark is? I think not! When Dr. Moore asked the question, “Why did you embrace atheism?”—he was not interested in Ash’s answer. He wanted to engage in useless pontification as to all the reasons Dr. Moore was quite certain atheists are atheists. (And apparently the reason for evolution, too—so we can sin!)
Think about the statement, “The issue isn’t evidence.” It isn’t? All those apologists like Dr. Craig, and J.P. Moreland and Lee Strobel and Dr. Plantinga must be quite surprised their books and articles and websites and debates are all for naught. The next time Dr. Habermas is debating another philosophy professor regarding the resurrection of Christ, according to Dr. Moore, he need not bother with such silly notions as evidence, or the New Testament writings, or the actions of the people of the time. Oh, my no! All Dr. Habermas need say is, “The reason you {insert Professor’s name here} don’t believe is that you want to Sin, Sin, Sin! I do not need to show an ounce of evidence—you need to stop sinning!”
Dr. Metzger, Dr. Wallace, Dr. Ehrman. Textual Criticism? Waste of time. The reason we know Dr. Ehrman is wrong, is because he wants to sin. Drs. Wallace and Metzger do (did) not. Don’t you see?
Why is it when Christians want to talk about the reasons they believe, they love to drag out the “evidence” of the alleged eyewitness testimonies, the archeological facts which refer to events in the Bible, or non-Christian writings regarding Christians in the first Century? Yet when we want to inspect such evidence, we are told we aren’t rejecting it because of our study—oh, no! We are rejecting it because of our secret desire to keep our pimp hand strong.
The reality is that humans are complicated creatures. We don’t all march to one tune. There is no “one thing” that persuades all humans. Some Christians believe because of evidence; some non-Christians believe for the same reasons. Some Christians believe because of an emotional experience; same is true for non-Christians. Some Christians believe because of moral implications; same is true for non-Christians.
For the Christian, imagine this, if you can. What if they discovered a First Century authenticated copy of Matthew in which Jesus says it is acceptable to divorce your spouse for any reason? Yes, it would turn textual criticism on its ear—but more importantly would every Christian rush right out and get a divorce?
Of course not! Most would stay married because they are married to their spouse for MORE than just the reason that divorce is a sin. Things like commitment, love, a genuine desire to be married to the other person, the detriments of divorce, children, social stigma, etc.
It is absolutely ridiculous to make the claim the ONLY reason Christians stay married is that divorce is a sin. The same way it is equally ridiculous the ONLY reason people reject Christianity is to sin. I didn’t have any desire to obtain a new lifestyle of pillaging small villages, so “Christianity had to go.” Quite the contrary—I desired with my whole-heart to keep Christianity! It had nothing to do with sin. The same way we desire to keep our marriages—it has nothing to do with the concern of “sin” of divorce—we do it because we want our marriage!
Likewise, the statement, “…I think you know there is certain fiery expectation of judgment” is truly inane. Do you know why people don’t murder? Because they don’t want to go to jail. Why they don’t swipe items from the store? Because they don’t want to go to jail. Why people stop at a stop light at 2 in the morning when they can clearly see for miles around there isn’t a blooming car in sight? Because they don’t want a ticket.
Punishment is a strong motivator.
This past year my oldest daughter received a two-day involuntary vacation from school. (I.e.—a suspension.) When questioned, she said, “I couldn’t help it. I reached my breaking point.” I explained to her when her parents were done punishing for the offense—she would amazingly discover she had a much higher breaking point than she realized. That her “breaking point” will reach new heights so when she was faced with a similar situation she would think, “No, this is not worth it, because my punishment will be more pain than the momentary pleasure.”
Some of us drive over the speed limit. Why? Because the punishment (a ticket) is not severe enough to cause us to not. If they started to impose Capital Punishment for speeders—we would stop!
Why do we slow down when we see a police officer on the side of the road? Because we “know” we are in danger of getting a ticket. Who has the guts to blow past an officer at 100 miles per hour, thinking they won’t get caught?
Imagine knowing the punishment of fire. Of burning alive. Of sheer, excruciating pain covering our entire body, from the top of head, to our armpits, to our delicate parts, down to our toes. Of the inside of your throat swallowing boiling tar. Imagine that for 30 seconds. For a minute. For a half an hour. We can’t even exercise for a half-an-hour; let alone endure such torture!
If we really “knew” such judgment was coming—don’t you think we would do everything in our power to avoid it? Let alone an eternity of it! Pick one or the other. It is curious we are told we are so selfish we refuse to acknowledge a God because we want to sin; if we were that selfish, wouldn’t we do everything we could for our own comfort? And highest on that list would be to avoid hell!
Even though there is the possibility of becoming rich, we don’t steal from banks because of the punishment; we certainly aren’t going to reject what we “secretly” know is true in order to commit some perceived sin when the punishment is far more terrible. Besides, as Christians, we are informed due to our sin nature, we will continue to sin anyway and will be forgiven. What is the point of giving up Christianity to sin, when we don’t have to give up Christianity to sin?
I “hate the light”? Bwahahahaha. Explain why every single pastor I have discussed my deconversion will be “getting back to me.” If it is me, the darkness, “running from the light” it sure is odd how the light won’t call me back. Every Christian leader I talked to—I’m waiting to get back to me. My entire Christian family—no response to me e-mails on the topic. The church I attended, “We don’t really have a place for you.”
This “darkness” is extremely amused to be told I am running from the light. No, that is the light running from me, and from their perspective and speed, it only looks as if the widening distance is my fault.
I am less inclined to continue such conversations. You want to state I didn’t believe in Christ as Savior and God with the same intensity as “true Christians”? Useless conversation. You want to claim the Bible as authoritative, but don’t even know the history of its formation? Fine, we can learn together. However it becomes a useless conversation when you say, “The Bible says it; I believe it; that settles it.”
You want me to read Christian authors (many of whom I already have) but you are not interested in reading scientists? Useless conversation.
I know we are so caught-up on the web, we feel we HAVE to point out every wrong. Every error. Thus assuring the longevity of useless conversations.
Wednesday, July 09, 2008
What Legacy do we leave?
My grandparents purchased a cabin on a lake in northern Michigan many, many years ago. Early 60’s. It has been a part of my entire life; I’ve gone there every summer with maybe 2 or 3 exceptions. We keep a log, in which each visitor is supposed to record their stay. [More than one family “discussion” has arisen over whether such a log is necessary.] Still and all, it is fun to go back and read of previous trips.
This last journey I looked up the summer I turned the same age as my son is now. What was it like to see the cabin in the eyes of an 11-year-old?
1977. I had received a 3-speed bike for my birthday, and brought it up with me. (Do they even still make 3-speed bikes? It was my first bike with handlebar brakes. You remember--the first time you needed to brake and jammed your feet backward only to spin your legs and desperately grab onto the handle brakes.) I had forgotten I even owned that bike.
I read notations of us buying cherries at 25 cents a pound. And peaches at $8 a bushel. How my brother rode to Lake Michigan on his bike to continue to perfect his skill at finding petoskeys. That boy could find a petoskey stone on a gravel road! (On this trip, my daughter with the fun way of viewing the world was desperate to find a petoskey of her own on our trip to Lake Michigan. At one point I asked how she was doing and with a look of intense concentration she said, “I am trying to think like a petoskey.”)
And I read how friends brought up a brand new card game for us to learn called “Uno.” (We resorted back to “Rook” and “Pit.”) I read of people who are now divorced (and re-married) and people who have since died. Names of friends I had forgotten existed, but could now recall the days and evenings of raucous fun we had together.
Which got me to thinking—what am I leaving for my children to read? To remember? What will they look back on and recollect what they had forgotten? I cannot imagine them finding and reading this blog 30 years from now. “Bo—ring!” I can picture the look upon their face.
We write so intently on things we find so important to the here and now. Obama’s nomination. The name of latest Hollywood star’s baby. Intelligent Design. The misnomers of what some Christian leader said. Or how we are fighting with this blogger, or that argument.
30 years from now—are our children going to care? I found myself more fascinated with what we ate for breakfast 31 years ago than what bill President Carter was signing. Yes, these things are important, and history books will record more of Jimmy Carter’s presidency than all my breakfasts combined—but dammit—this was my life. My memories.
Would I even want my children to read my blog? Obviously there are things now which are strictly forbidden. And over their head. Let them find their own way in theistic determination. And since this isn’t about them (really) they would quickly lose interest.
What do you do to pass on memories to your children? I am extremely fortunate (one of a billion things) to have a wife who likes to scrapbook. She is creating many books with pictures, and short blurbs, and most importantly—memories. Things my kids can look at 30 years from now and laugh with their own kids. “You wore THAT?!” “Look at that car! Bwahahaha.”
I know I have been a bit lazy in posting blogs. Somehow the entry about the use of numbers in Acts just doesn’t seem as important, realizing 30 years from now this blog will be in a dusty corner of the internet, unread and a piece of memory piled amongst the millions of other blogs. All of which we feel are so important to write right now and with great vigor and our descendants will shrug while they write their own blogs about their own issues with the same urgency and enthusiasm.
What are you passing on to your children?
This last journey I looked up the summer I turned the same age as my son is now. What was it like to see the cabin in the eyes of an 11-year-old?
1977. I had received a 3-speed bike for my birthday, and brought it up with me. (Do they even still make 3-speed bikes? It was my first bike with handlebar brakes. You remember--the first time you needed to brake and jammed your feet backward only to spin your legs and desperately grab onto the handle brakes.) I had forgotten I even owned that bike.
I read notations of us buying cherries at 25 cents a pound. And peaches at $8 a bushel. How my brother rode to Lake Michigan on his bike to continue to perfect his skill at finding petoskeys. That boy could find a petoskey stone on a gravel road! (On this trip, my daughter with the fun way of viewing the world was desperate to find a petoskey of her own on our trip to Lake Michigan. At one point I asked how she was doing and with a look of intense concentration she said, “I am trying to think like a petoskey.”)
And I read how friends brought up a brand new card game for us to learn called “Uno.” (We resorted back to “Rook” and “Pit.”) I read of people who are now divorced (and re-married) and people who have since died. Names of friends I had forgotten existed, but could now recall the days and evenings of raucous fun we had together.
Which got me to thinking—what am I leaving for my children to read? To remember? What will they look back on and recollect what they had forgotten? I cannot imagine them finding and reading this blog 30 years from now. “Bo—ring!” I can picture the look upon their face.
We write so intently on things we find so important to the here and now. Obama’s nomination. The name of latest Hollywood star’s baby. Intelligent Design. The misnomers of what some Christian leader said. Or how we are fighting with this blogger, or that argument.
30 years from now—are our children going to care? I found myself more fascinated with what we ate for breakfast 31 years ago than what bill President Carter was signing. Yes, these things are important, and history books will record more of Jimmy Carter’s presidency than all my breakfasts combined—but dammit—this was my life. My memories.
Would I even want my children to read my blog? Obviously there are things now which are strictly forbidden. And over their head. Let them find their own way in theistic determination. And since this isn’t about them (really) they would quickly lose interest.
What do you do to pass on memories to your children? I am extremely fortunate (one of a billion things) to have a wife who likes to scrapbook. She is creating many books with pictures, and short blurbs, and most importantly—memories. Things my kids can look at 30 years from now and laugh with their own kids. “You wore THAT?!” “Look at that car! Bwahahaha.”
I know I have been a bit lazy in posting blogs. Somehow the entry about the use of numbers in Acts just doesn’t seem as important, realizing 30 years from now this blog will be in a dusty corner of the internet, unread and a piece of memory piled amongst the millions of other blogs. All of which we feel are so important to write right now and with great vigor and our descendants will shrug while they write their own blogs about their own issues with the same urgency and enthusiasm.
What are you passing on to your children?
Friday, June 27, 2008
This Leopard Can’t change its Spots
We have often noted that people who change their theistic beliefs, even dramatically, don’t change. The basic personality stays the same. I am aware of one person who indicated in their testimony how, as a non-believer, they were a physical bully. After becoming a Christian, they no longer physically bullied people around.
But I noted the person was abrasive, condescending, venomous and verbally abusive toward any who disagreed with him, justifying it under the guise of treating others like Jesus treated the Pharisees. Did he change? Not really.
I know of a pastor who is no longer a Christian and now wants to “lead a flock” of non-believers. If you disagree with him, out come the same effective tools used as a pastor to get you to “toe the line.” Did they change? Not really.
In a moment of introspection I realize I haven’t changed much either.
See, as a Christian, I held the Bible in high regard. It would not be far from the truth to accuse me of being a “Biblian.” I figured it was our one sure-shot direction from God. I heard the testimonies and stories from people about how they felt with their feelings that God was “leading” them to do this or “calling” them to do that.
I know the tales of guys who “felt” God had a certain woman for them, and when that woman didn’t return the affection, it must be the woman’s fault. I watched people do some pretty selfish things; all under the firm conviction God was directing them through “inner thoughts.” Those of us outside the “inner thoughts” saw many of these rationalizations to be what they were—the person using God as an excuse to do what they wanted anyway.
I didn’t want to be such a person. I wanted to be as objective as possible. While it was possible God could communicate in visions, or feelings or urges, it was a certainty God communicated through the Bible. Relying on the Bible was safe. No fear of letting emotions or selfish desires sound like a god.
Needless to say, I studied the Bible. I cross-referenced the Bible. This was the one secure communication from God that I could say, “We may feel this way; but the Bible mandates this from God.”
Frankly, I believed some pretty different concepts as a Christian. I was not certain people who did not have the mental capacity to perform Rom. 10:9 were going to heaven. I couldn’t say with conviction, “Babies go to heaven.” Why? Because the Bible doesn’t say it! I hoped that a God of mercy would have at least the same amount of mercy as a human and would not commit such an injustice—but I didn’t know.
I was squeamish on the topic of abortion. Oh, there are plenty of arguments against abortion without needing to go to the Bible, but when people say, “God is against abortion” I became very, very silent. All the verses regarding God recognizing children in the womb are glorifying his knowledge. There is no specific verse saying “deliberate abortion is wrong.” Inferences and exegetical manhandling—yes. Specifics; no. Without those specifics, I thought it was better to be quiet than find out some day, in heaven, I was wrong.
Women preaching in church? Absolutely wrong. Paul came through for me on that one. That verse about women not wearing gold or pearls bothered me though. A lot. (1 Tim. 2:9) I tried to pass it off as “the intent was that women were to be modest,” but to be honest—that didn’t sit well with me. I kept my mouth shut and stewed on what God felt was important.
I couldn’t understand why God seemed so cavalier about slavery—so who was I to determine God might not get royally pissed off at a gold wedding band? Oh, the Bible allowed slavery. I didn’t postulate we bring it back, of course. But I didn’t say the Bible was against it either.
And now, on the other side of the fence, I find myself much the same.
I see these theistic debates in which analogies are used. The words, “I think God is…” or “I feel like God would…” and I feel the same pinch in my stomach as before. What is the basis the theist feels this way? Where are they coming up with this? I questioned it when I believed there was such a God—is it a surprise I question it even more?
And I see non-theists debate with the theists as to how the analogies don’t work, or use the Invisible Pink Unicorn, or Thor, and a war of words commences. I watch forums where it becomes: Cut. Paste. NITPICK, NITPICK, NITPICK.
What I don’t see are Christians who actually know their Bible. The same thing I saw as a Christian. On more than one occasion I have come in (with unwelcome sword flaming), demonstrated my “expertise” on the Bible, and both parties run off. They don’t want to discuss the creation, content or context of the Bible. They want to discuss, “I feel.” They want to discuss their perception of God.
I realize, in retrospect, this is exactly what I did as a Christian. Christians wanted Bible study to be, “Let’s read a verse and tell each other what we feel about it.” And I would point out the contradictions in other verses (the genesis of my deconversion, only I didn’t know at the time) and ask how they reconciled these conflicts. They, too, ran off. It was not what they wanted to discuss.
I’m not good at the “feelings” bit. Mystics drive me right off a cliff. (Is that a surprise? I think not.) “Touchy-feely” thoughts about God (or the responses thereto)—I am not good at.
Do you know why leopards don’t change their spots? Because they like the spots they have on! They have no reason, no desire, and no ability to change them anyway. I wish I could be a little less abrasive. Maybe less dogmatic on the lack of knowledge regarding the Bible. Yet every time I try to do so, I become extremely uncomfortable.
Like a naked leopard.
But I noted the person was abrasive, condescending, venomous and verbally abusive toward any who disagreed with him, justifying it under the guise of treating others like Jesus treated the Pharisees. Did he change? Not really.
I know of a pastor who is no longer a Christian and now wants to “lead a flock” of non-believers. If you disagree with him, out come the same effective tools used as a pastor to get you to “toe the line.” Did they change? Not really.
In a moment of introspection I realize I haven’t changed much either.
See, as a Christian, I held the Bible in high regard. It would not be far from the truth to accuse me of being a “Biblian.” I figured it was our one sure-shot direction from God. I heard the testimonies and stories from people about how they felt with their feelings that God was “leading” them to do this or “calling” them to do that.
I know the tales of guys who “felt” God had a certain woman for them, and when that woman didn’t return the affection, it must be the woman’s fault. I watched people do some pretty selfish things; all under the firm conviction God was directing them through “inner thoughts.” Those of us outside the “inner thoughts” saw many of these rationalizations to be what they were—the person using God as an excuse to do what they wanted anyway.
I didn’t want to be such a person. I wanted to be as objective as possible. While it was possible God could communicate in visions, or feelings or urges, it was a certainty God communicated through the Bible. Relying on the Bible was safe. No fear of letting emotions or selfish desires sound like a god.
Needless to say, I studied the Bible. I cross-referenced the Bible. This was the one secure communication from God that I could say, “We may feel this way; but the Bible mandates this from God.”
Frankly, I believed some pretty different concepts as a Christian. I was not certain people who did not have the mental capacity to perform Rom. 10:9 were going to heaven. I couldn’t say with conviction, “Babies go to heaven.” Why? Because the Bible doesn’t say it! I hoped that a God of mercy would have at least the same amount of mercy as a human and would not commit such an injustice—but I didn’t know.
I was squeamish on the topic of abortion. Oh, there are plenty of arguments against abortion without needing to go to the Bible, but when people say, “God is against abortion” I became very, very silent. All the verses regarding God recognizing children in the womb are glorifying his knowledge. There is no specific verse saying “deliberate abortion is wrong.” Inferences and exegetical manhandling—yes. Specifics; no. Without those specifics, I thought it was better to be quiet than find out some day, in heaven, I was wrong.
Women preaching in church? Absolutely wrong. Paul came through for me on that one. That verse about women not wearing gold or pearls bothered me though. A lot. (1 Tim. 2:9) I tried to pass it off as “the intent was that women were to be modest,” but to be honest—that didn’t sit well with me. I kept my mouth shut and stewed on what God felt was important.
I couldn’t understand why God seemed so cavalier about slavery—so who was I to determine God might not get royally pissed off at a gold wedding band? Oh, the Bible allowed slavery. I didn’t postulate we bring it back, of course. But I didn’t say the Bible was against it either.
And now, on the other side of the fence, I find myself much the same.
I see these theistic debates in which analogies are used. The words, “I think God is…” or “I feel like God would…” and I feel the same pinch in my stomach as before. What is the basis the theist feels this way? Where are they coming up with this? I questioned it when I believed there was such a God—is it a surprise I question it even more?
And I see non-theists debate with the theists as to how the analogies don’t work, or use the Invisible Pink Unicorn, or Thor, and a war of words commences. I watch forums where it becomes: Cut. Paste. NITPICK, NITPICK, NITPICK.
What I don’t see are Christians who actually know their Bible. The same thing I saw as a Christian. On more than one occasion I have come in (with unwelcome sword flaming), demonstrated my “expertise” on the Bible, and both parties run off. They don’t want to discuss the creation, content or context of the Bible. They want to discuss, “I feel.” They want to discuss their perception of God.
I realize, in retrospect, this is exactly what I did as a Christian. Christians wanted Bible study to be, “Let’s read a verse and tell each other what we feel about it.” And I would point out the contradictions in other verses (the genesis of my deconversion, only I didn’t know at the time) and ask how they reconciled these conflicts. They, too, ran off. It was not what they wanted to discuss.
I’m not good at the “feelings” bit. Mystics drive me right off a cliff. (Is that a surprise? I think not.) “Touchy-feely” thoughts about God (or the responses thereto)—I am not good at.
Do you know why leopards don’t change their spots? Because they like the spots they have on! They have no reason, no desire, and no ability to change them anyway. I wish I could be a little less abrasive. Maybe less dogmatic on the lack of knowledge regarding the Bible. Yet every time I try to do so, I become extremely uncomfortable.
Like a naked leopard.
Tuesday, June 24, 2008
Can you Trust a Survey?
Recently the Pew Forum on Religion & Life issued its SecondReport on major Religious trends in the United States. Understandably, many Evangelical leaders were upset to discover 57% of the people who identified themselves as “Evangelical” thought eternal life is possible through other religions.
The survey is being (slightly) lauded as demonstrating increasing tolerance within America. Before we become alarmed (if you are an evangelical) or encouraged (if you think Americans are becoming more tolerant) I question how the survey was conducted.
See, the survey also concluded 21% of people who identify themselves as atheists believe there is a god. Yep, that’s right. 1 in 5 atheists (according to the survey) say, “I am an atheist. I believe there is a god.” Something doesn’t add up.
And no, “atheist” was not a catch-all phrase. The agnostics were separated out, of whom 55% believe there is a god, and the “secular unaffiliated” were also separated out, of whom 66% believe there is a god.
To further demonstrate how odd the results appear, 6% of people who say they are atheists, and 14% of people who say they are agnostic, stated they believed in a personal god! Not only that they believe in some general notion of “god,” but a particular description of one! Now, it may seem as if I am dangerously approaching the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. We are all quite familiar with “No True Christian.” I don’t want to say these folks are “No True Atheist”—but I would sure like an explanation of what they think the word “atheist” means by saying they are atheist and believe in a personal god!
So I looked at how the question was asked. Enlightenment:
From Data (Note: PDF File.)
You can see exactly what was happening. The person being interviewed was getting bored with the survey and launched out the quickest answer. We can imagine the conversation:
Interviewer: What is your present religion, if any? Are you Protestant, Roman Catholic, Mor--
Interviewee: [impatiently] Oh, I am not one religion in particular.
Interviewer: [following instructions] “and would you say that’s atheist, agno--”
Interviewee: [impatiently] Atheist, I guess.
The person was marked down “atheist” and later, when the question of what type of god they believed in came up, they said, “a personal god.” No one ever thought to ask, “Does this line up?”
In a local Judge’s chamber there is a picture of a cake from a certain bakery. On the cake is the following message:
“Good Luck, Betty
“Underneath that
“Best Wishes from all.
Likewise we can imagine THAT conversation:
Person: We would like to order a cake.
Bakery: What do you want on it?
Person: ‘Good Luck, Betty,’ and underneath that, ‘Best Wishes from all.’
The survey is being (slightly) lauded as demonstrating increasing tolerance within America. Before we become alarmed (if you are an evangelical) or encouraged (if you think Americans are becoming more tolerant) I question how the survey was conducted.
See, the survey also concluded 21% of people who identify themselves as atheists believe there is a god. Yep, that’s right. 1 in 5 atheists (according to the survey) say, “I am an atheist. I believe there is a god.” Something doesn’t add up.
And no, “atheist” was not a catch-all phrase. The agnostics were separated out, of whom 55% believe there is a god, and the “secular unaffiliated” were also separated out, of whom 66% believe there is a god.
To further demonstrate how odd the results appear, 6% of people who say they are atheists, and 14% of people who say they are agnostic, stated they believed in a personal god! Not only that they believe in some general notion of “god,” but a particular description of one! Now, it may seem as if I am dangerously approaching the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. We are all quite familiar with “No True Christian.” I don’t want to say these folks are “No True Atheist”—but I would sure like an explanation of what they think the word “atheist” means by saying they are atheist and believe in a personal god!
So I looked at how the question was asked. Enlightenment:
Q.16 What is your present religion, if any? Are you Protestant, Roman Catholic, Mormon, Orthodox such as Greek or Russian Orthodox, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, agnostic, something else, or nothing in particular?[emphasis in original]
INTERVIEWER: IF R VOLUNTEERS“nothing in particular, none, no religion, etc.” BEFORE REACHING END OF LIST, PROMPT WITH: “and would you say that’s atheist, agnostic, or just nothing in particular?”
From Data (Note: PDF File.)
You can see exactly what was happening. The person being interviewed was getting bored with the survey and launched out the quickest answer. We can imagine the conversation:
Interviewer: What is your present religion, if any? Are you Protestant, Roman Catholic, Mor--
Interviewee: [impatiently] Oh, I am not one religion in particular.
Interviewer: [following instructions] “and would you say that’s atheist, agno--”
Interviewee: [impatiently] Atheist, I guess.
The person was marked down “atheist” and later, when the question of what type of god they believed in came up, they said, “a personal god.” No one ever thought to ask, “Does this line up?”
In a local Judge’s chamber there is a picture of a cake from a certain bakery. On the cake is the following message:
“Good Luck, Betty
“Underneath that
“Best Wishes from all.
Likewise we can imagine THAT conversation:
Person: We would like to order a cake.
Bakery: What do you want on it?
Person: ‘Good Luck, Betty,’ and underneath that, ‘Best Wishes from all.’
Monday, June 23, 2008
Create Your Own Religion
On occasion, we hear an argument for Christianity based upon it being unique. We hear phrases like, “Only Christianity does not require works to earn salvation” or “The Bible is unique because it was authored by 40 different people from various walks of life, over 1000’s of years, on three continents, blah, blah, blah…”
There is nothing about being “unique” or “different” which means something is correct. Answering the question, “What shape has only four equal straight lines and four equal angles?” with “a perpendicular purple parasite” is certainly unique. Yet clearly incorrect.
Curiously, we hear the exact opposite argument as well—that because some concept within Christianity is universally accepted, the fact it is NOT unique makes it true.
“Every society has morals.”
“Every society has a creation story” (or flood myth)
“The vast majority of people have always believed there is a god.”
When the occasion warrants, the Christian will embrace uniqueness as “proof” of the truth of Christianity, and (hardly taking a breath) will then claim its common themes demonstrate how it must be true. The reality is that ALL religions have particulars which make them unique, and ALL religions have a commonality.
When reviewing all religions, we can develop a blueprint by which to create our own.
Identify a Problem
Relatively easy—observe the world about us and see what most humans identify as a difficulty or something that needs to be improved. We see weather, and seasons with too little rain, or too much. A problem. A solution to this problem is creating a weather-god to control the problem.
We see humans desiring to hurt other humans. Create a god who imposes rules upon society. We want to impose OUR rules on other societies—include that requirement within one’s god. When creating a god, all bets are off—the sky is the limit. We can have our god do anything we want.
I like the “problem” the Aztecs invented—a non-problem! They saw the sun crossing the sky everyday and thought “what would happen if it stopped doing that?” thus creating the problem of keeping the sun doing what it was doing anyway!
Get the humans involved
This is absolutely key. Most frustrating being asked to help out a project, showing up, and then given nothing to do. Give us something—anything! Hold a string, measure the doors, collect the receipts. As long as we are doing something (no matter how small) we feel as if we are “useful.”
The religion that dies on the vine is the one having a god which will do whatever it desires, regardless of human involvement. This is why religions (yes, even Christianity) always have the human doing something forcing an impact on the god.
Offer sacrifices of food to the Rain-God to make it rain. Offer sacrifices of blood to make the sun travel across the sky. Offer requests to ask the god to do something. Offer worship, offer virgins. Believe the right thing, preach the correct words, use the right “Holy Writing.” Every religion promulgates because it keeps the humans involved: “Do this thing, and god will respond favorably.”
The question, of course, is “Do what?” What is it that a god likes? The simplest solution is to imagine God is a great, big, human (with superpowers) so a God would like what a human likes! Humans like food—offer a god food. Humans like to be praised—offer the god praise. Humans like recognition—offer the god recognition through sacrifice. Humans like to be right—offer the god the “correct” belief. Every thing offered by a religion is something a human wants. (Because that is the only way we know how to relate—on human terms.)
Have you thought about how human-like the Christian God is? He requires “correct belief.” (Always in line with what this or that particular Christian is telling me.) Why? What if I am wrong? Dead, absolutely, couldn’t-be-any-more-wrong wrong? What is that to a God? A God who has lived an infinity and can make galaxies consisting of billions of exploding balls of gas, with orbiting rocks—and I blow this creature’s entire Monday by not thinking a certain way?
We really think such a creature cares? And why is this creature so all-consumed with worship? With receiving glory? So obsessed that (according to Christians) it will physically force everyone to bend their knee as a display of its awesomeness. If I am standing—does God cry? This creation of a God wants what the humans who created it want—recognition through power.
I confess it is difficult to take seriously the claims of how incomprehensible a Creator/God would be, and then be told how I, a human who will only live 80 years or so, can so outstandingly affect its thoughts, emotions, actions and desires. As if it must dance to my (or any other human) tune.
Our religion has created a resolution to the problem (a god) yet retained the human as a necessary part of the resolution to the problem. What happens when the problem continues?
Find blame for the problem continuing
See, even if we have the god to give the rain, and have the religion to tell the humans how to make the god give the rain—sometimes the rain doesn’t fall. This will need to be explained away, and we have a variety of tools available to us.
1) Accentuate the positive; completely ignore the negative.
If you pray for 10 people to get well, and one person does—point this out over (and over and over). If people hear it enough, they will only remember how you prayed about Bob and Bob got well. If they don’t hear it, they will forget you also prayed for Bill and Bo and Buff and Bono and Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate.
And don’t just passively wait for things to happen—point out the positive when you haven’t even done anything! I love how churches hold picnics in August and then “Thank God for the wonderful weather we have today, with no rain.” Their god was sitting in heaven, thinking about giving rain to the farmers who desperately need it for the crops, but then saw the First Baptist Church was having its annual picnic and without even being asked provided wonderful sunny weather. In August.
Thank your god for food. Or your job. Or your spouse. Or the building in which to meet. Or your friends. See how you can start to point out all the wonderful things happening to you that could ONLY have come from a benevolent god? Sure, other people have jobs, and spouses. Sure, other people just lost their job, or started divorce proceedings. But if we can ignore them, and continually point out how the god gave—it all seems so positive.
2) Blame the person.
One thing to be very careful is never committing to specifics within a religion. Don’t fall into the trap of saying, “If you place ten grapes and two watermelons on an oak stump at noon, god will provide 2 centimeters of rain on your entire property within 24 hours.” Oh, no. ‘Cause this would be disaster when the rain didn’t fall.
Always add a nebulous word or two allowing wiggle room, so we can blame the person. Remember Linus from Peanuts who always wanted to see “The Great Pumpkin”? Remember what “The Great Pumpkin” required? A sincere pumpkin patch. That’s a great word—“sincere”! This way, when The Great Pumpkin fails to make an appearance, we can claim poor Linus was not “sincere” enough. Easy to measure ten grapes and two watermelons. How does one measure “sincerity”?
I’m sure you can immediately see all the advantageous words, thoughts and phrases to explain away why god didn’t solve the problem through the religions’ mechanisms. Blame it on not having the right belief. Or not believing enough. Blame it on the person not exercising the tenets of the religions correctly. (I.e. “having sin.”) Blame it on the prayer, the prayee, or the pray itself.
Now we would say, “If you genuinely give ten grapes and two watermelons, with a humble heart, and a contrite spirit—no thought of your own selfish desires—god will provide the rain.” When the rain doesn’t happen we got “genuine” and “humble” and “heart” and “contrite” and “spirit” and “selfish desires”—all SORTS of words to point out how the person did it wrong, wrong, wrong!
Of course, if it only rains 1 centimeter—see One (1) above: accentuate that positive!
3) Create an enemy
Although not necessary, it is useful to manufacture an opponent to your god within your religion. It can be another god, or a very powerful monster, or a demi-god. The Christians conveniently have the Devil. (or “sin-nature”)
This way, when the expected results don’t occur, we can blame this other creature for cutting god off at the knees and “blocking” god from doing what god wants to do. “God wishes he could save everybody, but golly-gosh, that darn ‘sin-nature’ prevents him from doing so.”
Feel free to mix and match any of these three elements. Have the Devil block a person, because they had sin in their life, but at least God allowed them to eventually find employment—just not the job they wanted. See how easily that works?
Be exclusive!
Everybody likes a birthday. A day set aside when we are just a little bit different than everyone else in our life. A day we justify sleeping in, or relaxing, or buying something we don’t need because on that day we are special.
We all like the boss recognizing us. Pointing out how we are distinctive and exceptional as compared to the other employees. Or getting that special reward.
A religion can offer that. God likes you because you did it right. God DOESN’T like those other people, or that other (wrong) belief, or those other religions. They aren’t special—they are human-made fictions.
You get rewards; they will get punishments. You get heaven; they get hell. You get crowns of glory for YOUR accomplishments; they will get toasted tootsies for their failure to be special.
And there you have it. How to successfully create a religion. Identify the problem. Resolve the problem by requiring humans to do something. Rationalize the dilemma of the problem continuing. Emphasize how special all the followers are.
Christianity unique? In minor points—yes. But on the whole as a religion? Not hardly.
There is nothing about being “unique” or “different” which means something is correct. Answering the question, “What shape has only four equal straight lines and four equal angles?” with “a perpendicular purple parasite” is certainly unique. Yet clearly incorrect.
Curiously, we hear the exact opposite argument as well—that because some concept within Christianity is universally accepted, the fact it is NOT unique makes it true.
“Every society has morals.”
“Every society has a creation story” (or flood myth)
“The vast majority of people have always believed there is a god.”
When the occasion warrants, the Christian will embrace uniqueness as “proof” of the truth of Christianity, and (hardly taking a breath) will then claim its common themes demonstrate how it must be true. The reality is that ALL religions have particulars which make them unique, and ALL religions have a commonality.
When reviewing all religions, we can develop a blueprint by which to create our own.
Identify a Problem
Relatively easy—observe the world about us and see what most humans identify as a difficulty or something that needs to be improved. We see weather, and seasons with too little rain, or too much. A problem. A solution to this problem is creating a weather-god to control the problem.
We see humans desiring to hurt other humans. Create a god who imposes rules upon society. We want to impose OUR rules on other societies—include that requirement within one’s god. When creating a god, all bets are off—the sky is the limit. We can have our god do anything we want.
I like the “problem” the Aztecs invented—a non-problem! They saw the sun crossing the sky everyday and thought “what would happen if it stopped doing that?” thus creating the problem of keeping the sun doing what it was doing anyway!
Get the humans involved
This is absolutely key. Most frustrating being asked to help out a project, showing up, and then given nothing to do. Give us something—anything! Hold a string, measure the doors, collect the receipts. As long as we are doing something (no matter how small) we feel as if we are “useful.”
The religion that dies on the vine is the one having a god which will do whatever it desires, regardless of human involvement. This is why religions (yes, even Christianity) always have the human doing something forcing an impact on the god.
Offer sacrifices of food to the Rain-God to make it rain. Offer sacrifices of blood to make the sun travel across the sky. Offer requests to ask the god to do something. Offer worship, offer virgins. Believe the right thing, preach the correct words, use the right “Holy Writing.” Every religion promulgates because it keeps the humans involved: “Do this thing, and god will respond favorably.”
The question, of course, is “Do what?” What is it that a god likes? The simplest solution is to imagine God is a great, big, human (with superpowers) so a God would like what a human likes! Humans like food—offer a god food. Humans like to be praised—offer the god praise. Humans like recognition—offer the god recognition through sacrifice. Humans like to be right—offer the god the “correct” belief. Every thing offered by a religion is something a human wants. (Because that is the only way we know how to relate—on human terms.)
Have you thought about how human-like the Christian God is? He requires “correct belief.” (Always in line with what this or that particular Christian is telling me.) Why? What if I am wrong? Dead, absolutely, couldn’t-be-any-more-wrong wrong? What is that to a God? A God who has lived an infinity and can make galaxies consisting of billions of exploding balls of gas, with orbiting rocks—and I blow this creature’s entire Monday by not thinking a certain way?
We really think such a creature cares? And why is this creature so all-consumed with worship? With receiving glory? So obsessed that (according to Christians) it will physically force everyone to bend their knee as a display of its awesomeness. If I am standing—does God cry? This creation of a God wants what the humans who created it want—recognition through power.
I confess it is difficult to take seriously the claims of how incomprehensible a Creator/God would be, and then be told how I, a human who will only live 80 years or so, can so outstandingly affect its thoughts, emotions, actions and desires. As if it must dance to my (or any other human) tune.
Our religion has created a resolution to the problem (a god) yet retained the human as a necessary part of the resolution to the problem. What happens when the problem continues?
Find blame for the problem continuing
See, even if we have the god to give the rain, and have the religion to tell the humans how to make the god give the rain—sometimes the rain doesn’t fall. This will need to be explained away, and we have a variety of tools available to us.
1) Accentuate the positive; completely ignore the negative.
If you pray for 10 people to get well, and one person does—point this out over (and over and over). If people hear it enough, they will only remember how you prayed about Bob and Bob got well. If they don’t hear it, they will forget you also prayed for Bill and Bo and Buff and Bono and Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate.
And don’t just passively wait for things to happen—point out the positive when you haven’t even done anything! I love how churches hold picnics in August and then “Thank God for the wonderful weather we have today, with no rain.” Their god was sitting in heaven, thinking about giving rain to the farmers who desperately need it for the crops, but then saw the First Baptist Church was having its annual picnic and without even being asked provided wonderful sunny weather. In August.
Thank your god for food. Or your job. Or your spouse. Or the building in which to meet. Or your friends. See how you can start to point out all the wonderful things happening to you that could ONLY have come from a benevolent god? Sure, other people have jobs, and spouses. Sure, other people just lost their job, or started divorce proceedings. But if we can ignore them, and continually point out how the god gave—it all seems so positive.
2) Blame the person.
One thing to be very careful is never committing to specifics within a religion. Don’t fall into the trap of saying, “If you place ten grapes and two watermelons on an oak stump at noon, god will provide 2 centimeters of rain on your entire property within 24 hours.” Oh, no. ‘Cause this would be disaster when the rain didn’t fall.
Always add a nebulous word or two allowing wiggle room, so we can blame the person. Remember Linus from Peanuts who always wanted to see “The Great Pumpkin”? Remember what “The Great Pumpkin” required? A sincere pumpkin patch. That’s a great word—“sincere”! This way, when The Great Pumpkin fails to make an appearance, we can claim poor Linus was not “sincere” enough. Easy to measure ten grapes and two watermelons. How does one measure “sincerity”?
I’m sure you can immediately see all the advantageous words, thoughts and phrases to explain away why god didn’t solve the problem through the religions’ mechanisms. Blame it on not having the right belief. Or not believing enough. Blame it on the person not exercising the tenets of the religions correctly. (I.e. “having sin.”) Blame it on the prayer, the prayee, or the pray itself.
Now we would say, “If you genuinely give ten grapes and two watermelons, with a humble heart, and a contrite spirit—no thought of your own selfish desires—god will provide the rain.” When the rain doesn’t happen we got “genuine” and “humble” and “heart” and “contrite” and “spirit” and “selfish desires”—all SORTS of words to point out how the person did it wrong, wrong, wrong!
Of course, if it only rains 1 centimeter—see One (1) above: accentuate that positive!
3) Create an enemy
Although not necessary, it is useful to manufacture an opponent to your god within your religion. It can be another god, or a very powerful monster, or a demi-god. The Christians conveniently have the Devil. (or “sin-nature”)
This way, when the expected results don’t occur, we can blame this other creature for cutting god off at the knees and “blocking” god from doing what god wants to do. “God wishes he could save everybody, but golly-gosh, that darn ‘sin-nature’ prevents him from doing so.”
Feel free to mix and match any of these three elements. Have the Devil block a person, because they had sin in their life, but at least God allowed them to eventually find employment—just not the job they wanted. See how easily that works?
Be exclusive!
Everybody likes a birthday. A day set aside when we are just a little bit different than everyone else in our life. A day we justify sleeping in, or relaxing, or buying something we don’t need because on that day we are special.
We all like the boss recognizing us. Pointing out how we are distinctive and exceptional as compared to the other employees. Or getting that special reward.
A religion can offer that. God likes you because you did it right. God DOESN’T like those other people, or that other (wrong) belief, or those other religions. They aren’t special—they are human-made fictions.
You get rewards; they will get punishments. You get heaven; they get hell. You get crowns of glory for YOUR accomplishments; they will get toasted tootsies for their failure to be special.
And there you have it. How to successfully create a religion. Identify the problem. Resolve the problem by requiring humans to do something. Rationalize the dilemma of the problem continuing. Emphasize how special all the followers are.
Christianity unique? In minor points—yes. But on the whole as a religion? Not hardly.
Thursday, June 19, 2008
Balance
We see “balance” as a good thing; a goal worthy to be achieved. The “right” thing to do. The Statue of Justice holds a scale in her left hand. The scale is…balanced.
I attended a seminar on jury trials, and the speaker indicated studies showed jurors reacted negatively to the question (commonly asked) “Can you be fair and impartial?” The implication perceived was that the lawyer thought the juror could not be “fair and impartial”—and who wants to think that? The recommended question was “Can you be balanced?”—inquiring whether they can “weigh” the evidence.
Since balance is a good, worthy goal; the opposite of balance—imbalance—is reprehensible. An injustice to be avoided and disparaged. I see people claiming they are not pushing for their agenda, or desiring their particular viewpoint prevail. Oh no—they are performing a much higher calling—a service to humankind. They are only desiring “balance.”
The other day I was listening to Dr. Albert Mohler discuss the recent California decision to allow same sex marriage, and the media attention surrounding the first marriages allowed. Dr. Mohler’s complaint was the focus on the human side of the story. The tales of couples who had been together for a long, long time and could finally be married. He was concerned the media was not presenting any depiction from the viewpoint of those against same-sex marriage. And how this was another step in the complete unraveling of our society.
I was interested in how he framed his concern. “The media is not being balanced in their presentation of the story.”
Balanced. “How horribly wicked of the media to be imbalanced,” I thought, “I am against imbalance. We must rise as one and rid ourselves of the evil of imbalance from the media failing to present Dr. Mohler’s point of view.” As I was gathering my pitchfork, club and torch in preparation to advance on my local newspaper, it struck me—where is it written the media has to be balanced? And what does “balanced” even mean in presenting an issue?
Does every story require the newspaper or television or radio present the Christian view and the non-Christian view? And the Jewish view? And the Muslim view? And the view of the people from Nebraska? And the people with tattoos? Imagine the attempt to present a “balanced” view of all representations on an event. It would take 12 hours to cover all the editorials on a 2-alarm fire!
Humorously, Dr. Mohler was speaking through a medium of media—satellite radio. I wonder what would happen if I called his radio show and said, “You didn’t present the non-theist position accurately. Please give me a five minute rebuttal everyday.” Would Dr. Mohler proclaim, “Oh yes. Because I hold ‘balance in the media’ in such high ideal, this is absolutely necessary”? Or would he discover he was not quite so interested in “balance” after all?
Or what if I asked my local church to teach a class from a non-theistic standpoint on the Bible? We discover (rightly so) the church is not so interested nor designed to be “balanced.” It is presenting a decidedly one-sided view.
As it turns out—we are NOT so interested in balance. Let you in on a not-so-secret secret. The absolutely last thing I want is a “balanced” jury. I want a jury so inclined to be favorable to me, they are simply aching to render a verdict on behalf of my client by the time I have finished my opening statement.
I don’t want the politicians I vote for to be “balanced.” I want them to make laws in support of viewpoints I hold. Not surprisingly, I expect Christians equally do not want “balanced” politicians—they, too, want lawmakers and judges favorable disposed toward their Christian standpoint.
I don’t expect news agencies to be “balanced.” Anyone who compares the same story on CNN with FOX will quickly discover how easy it is to put spin on an event. Sometimes I wonder if the reporters were at the same occurrence! These are companies intent on doing what companies do—make a profit. This is not some “higher institution” with lofty goals and sacred trusts of being “balanced.” These are businesses making money.
Don’t try and sell me that you are looking out for the best interests of humans under the guise of “being balanced.” That you are not upset at the lack of your viewpoint being represented, but are perturbed over the injustice of imbalance. Don’t couch the dissatisfaction with the noble self-congratulatory claim of just wanting balance.
Because you might find you get what you wished for. And what church would want Dr. Dawkins giving a rebuttal every Sunday?
I attended a seminar on jury trials, and the speaker indicated studies showed jurors reacted negatively to the question (commonly asked) “Can you be fair and impartial?” The implication perceived was that the lawyer thought the juror could not be “fair and impartial”—and who wants to think that? The recommended question was “Can you be balanced?”—inquiring whether they can “weigh” the evidence.
Since balance is a good, worthy goal; the opposite of balance—imbalance—is reprehensible. An injustice to be avoided and disparaged. I see people claiming they are not pushing for their agenda, or desiring their particular viewpoint prevail. Oh no—they are performing a much higher calling—a service to humankind. They are only desiring “balance.”
The other day I was listening to Dr. Albert Mohler discuss the recent California decision to allow same sex marriage, and the media attention surrounding the first marriages allowed. Dr. Mohler’s complaint was the focus on the human side of the story. The tales of couples who had been together for a long, long time and could finally be married. He was concerned the media was not presenting any depiction from the viewpoint of those against same-sex marriage. And how this was another step in the complete unraveling of our society.
I was interested in how he framed his concern. “The media is not being balanced in their presentation of the story.”
Balanced. “How horribly wicked of the media to be imbalanced,” I thought, “I am against imbalance. We must rise as one and rid ourselves of the evil of imbalance from the media failing to present Dr. Mohler’s point of view.” As I was gathering my pitchfork, club and torch in preparation to advance on my local newspaper, it struck me—where is it written the media has to be balanced? And what does “balanced” even mean in presenting an issue?
Does every story require the newspaper or television or radio present the Christian view and the non-Christian view? And the Jewish view? And the Muslim view? And the view of the people from Nebraska? And the people with tattoos? Imagine the attempt to present a “balanced” view of all representations on an event. It would take 12 hours to cover all the editorials on a 2-alarm fire!
Humorously, Dr. Mohler was speaking through a medium of media—satellite radio. I wonder what would happen if I called his radio show and said, “You didn’t present the non-theist position accurately. Please give me a five minute rebuttal everyday.” Would Dr. Mohler proclaim, “Oh yes. Because I hold ‘balance in the media’ in such high ideal, this is absolutely necessary”? Or would he discover he was not quite so interested in “balance” after all?
Or what if I asked my local church to teach a class from a non-theistic standpoint on the Bible? We discover (rightly so) the church is not so interested nor designed to be “balanced.” It is presenting a decidedly one-sided view.
As it turns out—we are NOT so interested in balance. Let you in on a not-so-secret secret. The absolutely last thing I want is a “balanced” jury. I want a jury so inclined to be favorable to me, they are simply aching to render a verdict on behalf of my client by the time I have finished my opening statement.
I don’t want the politicians I vote for to be “balanced.” I want them to make laws in support of viewpoints I hold. Not surprisingly, I expect Christians equally do not want “balanced” politicians—they, too, want lawmakers and judges favorable disposed toward their Christian standpoint.
I don’t expect news agencies to be “balanced.” Anyone who compares the same story on CNN with FOX will quickly discover how easy it is to put spin on an event. Sometimes I wonder if the reporters were at the same occurrence! These are companies intent on doing what companies do—make a profit. This is not some “higher institution” with lofty goals and sacred trusts of being “balanced.” These are businesses making money.
Don’t try and sell me that you are looking out for the best interests of humans under the guise of “being balanced.” That you are not upset at the lack of your viewpoint being represented, but are perturbed over the injustice of imbalance. Don’t couch the dissatisfaction with the noble self-congratulatory claim of just wanting balance.
Because you might find you get what you wished for. And what church would want Dr. Dawkins giving a rebuttal every Sunday?
Friday, June 13, 2008
Loser
I hate losing. This does not come as a large surprise. Oh, I don’t mind losing in a backyard game of volleyball—those are for the fun anyway. Or a game of cards with the kids.
I hate losing in court. With a passion. Experience has shown me—there are times I will lose. Sure, times when I win. Victories I can croon about. Yet there are times I lose, too.
See, every case or motion or hearing brought to a judge or jury will have a decision. And that decision will be for one side or the other. There is always a winner; always a loser. No one likes to hear a judge say, “I heard your side and was not persuaded by it. I am deciding you are wrong.” No one expects the loser to walk out the door yelling, “Yippee! I just learned a valuable lesson that I will remember for the rest of my life!” We appreciate the loser doesn’t like or agree with the decision. Goes without saying.
Yesterday, as you probably know, the United States Supreme Court rendered its third decision regarding the Guantanamo Bay Detainees in Boumediene v Bush. (Warning: PDF file.) Boumediene held, in simplest form, that the detainees had the right to pursue a writ of habeas corpus through the Federal courts.
Not that they would win. Not that they are entitled to be set freedom. The ONLY issue ruled upon was the detainees had the right to have access to the court to have their case heard.
When looked at in that light, doesn’t seem like much, does it? Simply the right to be heard? What is surprising, if you look at the legal history laid out, as to how hard it has been to even get this far. The detainees each brought a case of writ of habeas corpus (literally “You have the Body”) which is a test of the legality of the detention or imprisonment. Again, understand in each of these cases the government most likely has substantial evidence to support detaining these individuals and would likely prevail. This is NOT a claim to release the prisoners. This is NOT a trial as to the guilt or innocence of the individuals. This is merely a claim in which the government must show sufficient reason as to why these individuals are being detained. That’s it.
Initially the Federal District court dismissed the claim, stating it had no sovereignty over Guantanamo Bay. No Jurisdiction. The Federal Circuit court agreed on appeal. The Supreme Court disagreed, however, in Rasul v Bush noting Federal Law (28 USC 2241) extended habeas jurisdiction over Guantanamo Bay.
The Republican Congress understood what to do—amend the Law! (28 USC 2241). And guess what the new amendment said? It explicitly stated “no court…shall have jurisdiction…to hear an application for habeas corpus filed…by or on behalf of an alien detained . . . at Guantanamo.” Showed that uppity Court what to do! If the Supreme Court thought this law gave those detainees the right to have access to the court, then change the law.
Again, the Supreme Court in Hamdan v Rumsfield ruled that the amendment was inapplicable to these cases, as it was enacted AFTER the writs were filed. (We abhor ex post facto laws—laws done after the fact. Making what you did yesterday illegal and then charging you for doing it!)
Congress, no dummy, amended the law again to state no writ of habeas corpus was available to “enemy combatants” (no longer detainees), and again were confident they had prohibited these individuals access to the courts.
In yesterday’s decision, the Supreme Court held, despite this new designation of “enemy combatant” the detainees are still allowed the right of access to the court to see if they are being detained illegally. It has taken six years.
I was shocked at President Bush’s reaction to this ruling. He said, "We will abide by the court's decision. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it." The first sentence is fine. It is what he must do as President—uphold the Constitution. It is why we instituted and have the checks-and-balance three branches of government. So that when the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution, the Executive branch enforces that interpretation.
The second sentence was more troubling. Yes, we know President Bush doesn’t agree with it. We understand President Bush would have tortured, maimed and shot the detainees by now. To hell with what the citizens or the rest of the world thought of it. We understand he felt like a loser.
I freely support George W. Bush as a private citizen proclaiming to the world what he doesn’t agree with. He can tell us he is so upset he wishes the court was hog-tied and chicken-feathered. But as my President (as little as that is) I want to hear him say he will abide by the Court’s decision and SHUT UP! Who is the President of the United States to agree or not agree with the decision? It is his job to start enforcing the law—not liking it or disliking it.
President Bush went on, “It was a deeply divided court. And I strongly agree with those who dissented and that dissent was based upon their serious concerns about U.S. national security." Again, no problem with the first sentence. (Although “deeply” is a bit over the top.) Again, the second sentence was unnecessary.
We know you agreed with the dissenting opinion. You just said you disagreed with the majority opinion. Doesn’t take a genius IQ to figure out which one you agree with. What was more troubling, though, was that emphasis on “U.S. national security.”
I have no doubt the dissenting Justices have serious concerns about U.S. national security. I strongly suspect the majority Justices do as well. But understand—their job is NOT about U.S. national security! It is about interpreting the United States Constitution and protecting the rights enumerated therein!
I am stuck with a President who holds his interpretation of National Security Interest over all other interests. He doesn’t care about the economy. He doesn’t care about natural disasters. He doesn’t care about foreign relations, governments, social issues. He cares about killing Muslim terrorists.
President Bush doesn’t know what an 8th Grade Government class graduate does. Thank goodness the United States Supreme Court, despite the whine of the President as to what their focus should be, ignored him and performed their duty—follow the Constitution.
Amusingly, President Bush stated his staff would study the ruling: "We'll do this with this in mind — to determine whether or not additional legislation might be appropriate so we can safely say to the American people, 'We're doing everything we can to protect you.'"
Good luck. He has tried it twice with his Republican Congress, and each time the Supreme Court stuck to its job. Now that the Congress no longer holds a Republican majority, it is doubtful this law will be changed. For the third time.
Mr. President, I know you are genuinely doing everything you can to protect me from terrorists. Thank you. But the United States Supreme Court is doing everything they can to protect me from your complete abrogation of rights under the Constitution. Thank AND bless them for it!
I hate losing in court. With a passion. Experience has shown me—there are times I will lose. Sure, times when I win. Victories I can croon about. Yet there are times I lose, too.
See, every case or motion or hearing brought to a judge or jury will have a decision. And that decision will be for one side or the other. There is always a winner; always a loser. No one likes to hear a judge say, “I heard your side and was not persuaded by it. I am deciding you are wrong.” No one expects the loser to walk out the door yelling, “Yippee! I just learned a valuable lesson that I will remember for the rest of my life!” We appreciate the loser doesn’t like or agree with the decision. Goes without saying.
Yesterday, as you probably know, the United States Supreme Court rendered its third decision regarding the Guantanamo Bay Detainees in Boumediene v Bush. (Warning: PDF file.) Boumediene held, in simplest form, that the detainees had the right to pursue a writ of habeas corpus through the Federal courts.
Not that they would win. Not that they are entitled to be set freedom. The ONLY issue ruled upon was the detainees had the right to have access to the court to have their case heard.
When looked at in that light, doesn’t seem like much, does it? Simply the right to be heard? What is surprising, if you look at the legal history laid out, as to how hard it has been to even get this far. The detainees each brought a case of writ of habeas corpus (literally “You have the Body”) which is a test of the legality of the detention or imprisonment. Again, understand in each of these cases the government most likely has substantial evidence to support detaining these individuals and would likely prevail. This is NOT a claim to release the prisoners. This is NOT a trial as to the guilt or innocence of the individuals. This is merely a claim in which the government must show sufficient reason as to why these individuals are being detained. That’s it.
Initially the Federal District court dismissed the claim, stating it had no sovereignty over Guantanamo Bay. No Jurisdiction. The Federal Circuit court agreed on appeal. The Supreme Court disagreed, however, in Rasul v Bush noting Federal Law (28 USC 2241) extended habeas jurisdiction over Guantanamo Bay.
The Republican Congress understood what to do—amend the Law! (28 USC 2241). And guess what the new amendment said? It explicitly stated “no court…shall have jurisdiction…to hear an application for habeas corpus filed…by or on behalf of an alien detained . . . at Guantanamo.” Showed that uppity Court what to do! If the Supreme Court thought this law gave those detainees the right to have access to the court, then change the law.
Again, the Supreme Court in Hamdan v Rumsfield ruled that the amendment was inapplicable to these cases, as it was enacted AFTER the writs were filed. (We abhor ex post facto laws—laws done after the fact. Making what you did yesterday illegal and then charging you for doing it!)
Congress, no dummy, amended the law again to state no writ of habeas corpus was available to “enemy combatants” (no longer detainees), and again were confident they had prohibited these individuals access to the courts.
In yesterday’s decision, the Supreme Court held, despite this new designation of “enemy combatant” the detainees are still allowed the right of access to the court to see if they are being detained illegally. It has taken six years.
I was shocked at President Bush’s reaction to this ruling. He said, "We will abide by the court's decision. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it." The first sentence is fine. It is what he must do as President—uphold the Constitution. It is why we instituted and have the checks-and-balance three branches of government. So that when the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution, the Executive branch enforces that interpretation.
The second sentence was more troubling. Yes, we know President Bush doesn’t agree with it. We understand President Bush would have tortured, maimed and shot the detainees by now. To hell with what the citizens or the rest of the world thought of it. We understand he felt like a loser.
I freely support George W. Bush as a private citizen proclaiming to the world what he doesn’t agree with. He can tell us he is so upset he wishes the court was hog-tied and chicken-feathered. But as my President (as little as that is) I want to hear him say he will abide by the Court’s decision and SHUT UP! Who is the President of the United States to agree or not agree with the decision? It is his job to start enforcing the law—not liking it or disliking it.
President Bush went on, “It was a deeply divided court. And I strongly agree with those who dissented and that dissent was based upon their serious concerns about U.S. national security." Again, no problem with the first sentence. (Although “deeply” is a bit over the top.) Again, the second sentence was unnecessary.
We know you agreed with the dissenting opinion. You just said you disagreed with the majority opinion. Doesn’t take a genius IQ to figure out which one you agree with. What was more troubling, though, was that emphasis on “U.S. national security.”
I have no doubt the dissenting Justices have serious concerns about U.S. national security. I strongly suspect the majority Justices do as well. But understand—their job is NOT about U.S. national security! It is about interpreting the United States Constitution and protecting the rights enumerated therein!
I am stuck with a President who holds his interpretation of National Security Interest over all other interests. He doesn’t care about the economy. He doesn’t care about natural disasters. He doesn’t care about foreign relations, governments, social issues. He cares about killing Muslim terrorists.
President Bush doesn’t know what an 8th Grade Government class graduate does. Thank goodness the United States Supreme Court, despite the whine of the President as to what their focus should be, ignored him and performed their duty—follow the Constitution.
Amusingly, President Bush stated his staff would study the ruling: "We'll do this with this in mind — to determine whether or not additional legislation might be appropriate so we can safely say to the American people, 'We're doing everything we can to protect you.'"
Good luck. He has tried it twice with his Republican Congress, and each time the Supreme Court stuck to its job. Now that the Congress no longer holds a Republican majority, it is doubtful this law will be changed. For the third time.
Mr. President, I know you are genuinely doing everything you can to protect me from terrorists. Thank you. But the United States Supreme Court is doing everything they can to protect me from your complete abrogation of rights under the Constitution. Thank AND bless them for it!
Tuesday, June 10, 2008
Idioms
My youngest daughter (age 8) has a delightful mind which looks at the world just a bit differently. She comes up with some interesting thoughts. (She was the one who wondered, in the story of the Feeding of the Five Thousand what the people drank, and came up with the solution they must have gotten water out of the “fish guts.”)
One of my favorite stories to tell happened about two years ago as I walked by her room. I spotted her standing--arms overflowing with about every stuffed animal she owned. On one hand the fingers were drumming; her face had a look of intense concentration. (The tongue peeking out of the corner of her mouth.)
Me: Honey—what’s wrong?
Daughter: Mom told me to pick up all of my stuffed animals, but didn’t tell me what to do next!
Or another tale. My family often plays “I Spy” in restaurants while waiting for our food.
Daughter: I spy with my little eye…a goat.
Family: [after searching frantically for five minutes] O.K. We give up. Where is it?
Daughter: [triumphant] Right over there.
Me: [again after searching] I’m sorry, honey, I still don’t see it.
Daughter: [even more proud at her “win”] THAT’s because it is in the shape of a frog!
At the end of this school year we were treated with a fat notebook full of stories written or dictated by my daughter. One of the projects involved the teacher starting an Idiom, and then having the child finish the rest. Here is the world of phrases through the eyes of an 8-year-old:
“Strike while the…Rake is raking up leaves.”
“What’s good for the goose, is good for the…water we need to drink.”
“You can’t teach an old dog new…tricks like ‘go get it.’”
“A penny saved is…a penny spent.”
“Children should be seen and not…hurt other children.”
“It is better to be safe than…sorry about lying.”
“While the cat’s away…you can buy a scratching post.”
“Where there’s a will there’s a…way to make it right.”
“Necessity is…needing water and food.”
“People who live in glass houses…will get hurt.”
One of my favorite stories to tell happened about two years ago as I walked by her room. I spotted her standing--arms overflowing with about every stuffed animal she owned. On one hand the fingers were drumming; her face had a look of intense concentration. (The tongue peeking out of the corner of her mouth.)
Me: Honey—what’s wrong?
Daughter: Mom told me to pick up all of my stuffed animals, but didn’t tell me what to do next!
Or another tale. My family often plays “I Spy” in restaurants while waiting for our food.
Daughter: I spy with my little eye…a goat.
Family: [after searching frantically for five minutes] O.K. We give up. Where is it?
Daughter: [triumphant] Right over there.
Me: [again after searching] I’m sorry, honey, I still don’t see it.
Daughter: [even more proud at her “win”] THAT’s because it is in the shape of a frog!
At the end of this school year we were treated with a fat notebook full of stories written or dictated by my daughter. One of the projects involved the teacher starting an Idiom, and then having the child finish the rest. Here is the world of phrases through the eyes of an 8-year-old:
“Strike while the…Rake is raking up leaves.”
“What’s good for the goose, is good for the…water we need to drink.”
“You can’t teach an old dog new…tricks like ‘go get it.’”
“A penny saved is…a penny spent.”
“Children should be seen and not…hurt other children.”
“It is better to be safe than…sorry about lying.”
“While the cat’s away…you can buy a scratching post.”
“Where there’s a will there’s a…way to make it right.”
“Necessity is…needing water and food.”
“People who live in glass houses…will get hurt.”
Friday, June 06, 2008
Will you Date Me?
The Tanakh is precise about dates. It places its story within a specific time frame, by reference to events, ages, persons, etc. I understand the Old Earth Creationism claim which lengthens the time within Genesis One to beyond a 7-day week of 24 hour days. But once Adam appears, how does the OEC get around the fact the Tanakh gives a precise history, placing Adam at the most at 6000 BCE?
How much allegory can be read into numbers? How can anyone reading the Bible conform it to the evidence of humans existing before 6000 BCE? (I am always puzzled at the concept of Old Earth Creationists who accept science as “trumping” Genesis One regarding the age of the earth, but deny science “trumping” the Bible when it comes to cosmology or evolution. How did they pick one over the other?)
For some time I have wanted to go through the Tanakh to see how precise a dating system we can have, and I was given a reason to do so on a thread elsewhere. It was interesting enough. The easiest way to do this is to work backwards.
926 BCE – Shishak (also known as Pharaoh Shoshenq) attacks Rehoboam. (1 Kings 14:25-28; 2 Chron 12:1-12) Rohl has attempted (unsuccessfully) to claim this was, in fact, Ramesses II, not Shoshenq, which would move the date of this attack back by about 300 years. Rohl calls this a “New Chronology.” The problem with Rohl’s claim, is that Assyrian King Lists, as well as other histories, align with the current Egyptian chronology. In order to modify it, we also have to introduce, wiggle, wrestle and create elaborate possible explanations and wild theories to resolve the other histories. The simplest explanation, rather than turn the world upside down to somehow make the Bible align, is that this was Shoshenq. The vast predominance of Bible scholars agree.
931 BCE – Since the attack of Shishak occurred five years into Rehoboam’s reign, this would be the first year of Rehoboam and the last year of King Solomon.
971 BCE – Solomon starts to reign [He reigned for 40 years.] (1 Kings 11:42). Four years into his reign (967 BCE) he began to build the first temple. This is critical, because this date gives us our jumping off point to cover the time of David, Saul, Judges, Joshua and Exodus. We make a large leap back in time at this point.
1447 BCE – Exodus from Egypt. 1 Kings 6:1 says Solomon began to build the temple 480 years after the people left Egypt. The Septuagint says 440 years. (For the moment, I will use the Masoretic Texts) Adding 480 years to 967 BCE gives us 1447 BCE.*
*An anomaly. Paul claims in Galatians 3:17 the law was given 430 years after the covenant was made with Abraham. Abraham was 75 at the time of the covenant, (Gen. 12:1-4) which we will soon see was 2092 BCE. This would place the Exodus at 1662 BCE. I have seen on my internet travels, when apologists want to play funny with the dates, rather than use the 480 years of 1 Kings 6:1, they work around Abraham and Paul to move the date of the Exodus. I have not seen this contradiction addressed head-on.
1877 BCE – Jacob enters Egypt with his family. Exodus 12:40-41 says this was 430 years prior to the Exodus, fixing us to this particular date. It also conforms to the four hundred years predicted by God in Gen. 15:13-16**
**Anomaly Two. Exodus 6:16-20. We have the genealogy of Levi (son of Jacob) -> Kohath -> Amram -> Moses. Levi lived to be 137, Kohath 133, and Amram 137. However, Joseph was at least 30 (probably older) when the family moved to Egypt, and Levi was his older brother, so the most conservative age would have Levi being 31 when the family moved to Egypt. Adding all the time: Levi [137], Kohat [133], Amram [137] and Moses up to the time the people left [80], subtracting the time Levi did not live in Egypt [-31] puts us at 457 years. Close to the 430 years, true? But this would mean each of the individuals had their sons very, very late in life. All of them would have to be over 100 years old.
At the moment we have a date certain (1877 BCE) to work backwards from. The method of doing so is simple. Jacob was 130 years old when he entered Egypt. (Gen. 47:9) Therefore we can determine the year he was born. 1877 BCE + 130 years = 2007 BCE. We are told Isaac was 60 years old when he had Jacob. (Gen. 25:26; Gen. 35:28-29) Now we can calculate the year Isaac was born. 2007 BCE + 60 years = 2067 BCE.
With the simple process we can progress backward and use the age of the fathers at the time of the birth to calculate the year the father was born. Where were we? Ah, yes—Isaac.
2067 BCE – Isaac Born.
2167 BCE – Abraham Born. (He was 100 when Isaac was Born. Gen 21:5; 25:7)
2237 BCE – Terah Born (Gen 11:26; 11:32)
2266 BCE – Nahor Born (Gen. 11:24-25)
2296 BCE – Serug Born (Gen. 11:22-23)
2328 BCE – Reu Born (Gen. 11:20-21
2358 BCE – Peleg Born (Gen. 11:18-19)
2392 BCE – Eber Born (Gen. 11:16-17)
Eber named Peleg because of the Great Divide. The Tower of Babel. (Gen. 10:25). This would place the event of the Tower of Babel between 2392 BCE (Eber’s birth) and 2358 BCE (naming of Peleg).
2422 BCE – Salah Born. (Gen. 11:14-15)
2457 BCE – Arphaxad Born (Gen. 11:12-13)***
***Another Anomaly. According to Luke 3:36, a fellow named “Cainen” is inserted between Salah and Arphaxad. P75, one of the earliest manuscripts we have of Luke does not have Cainen. Further, Josephus, in his similar genealogy in Antiquities 1.6.5 does not have Cainen. Curious.
2459 BCE – Flood (Gen. 10:10-11)
2557 BCE – Shem Born (Gen. 11:10-11; 5:32)
3059 BCE – Noah Born. (Gen. 9:29)
Interesting to see Noah lived 950 years, or from 3059 BCE to 2109 BCE. Notice Noah was alive at the time of the Tower of Babel!
3241 BCE – Lamech (Gen. 5:28-31)
3428 BCE – Methuselah (Gen. 5:25-27)
Methuselah. Oldest recorded living person in the Tanakh at 969 years of age. 3428 BCE – 969 years = 2459 BCE. Year of the Flood. Coincidence?
3493 BCE – Enoch (Gen 5:21-24)
3655 BCE – Jared (Gen. 5:18-20)
3720 BCE – Mahalalel (Gen. 5:15-17)
3790 BCE – Cainen (Gen. 5:12-14)
3880 BCE – Enosh (Gen. 5:9-11)
3985 BCE – Seth (Gen. 5:6-8)
4115 BCE – Adam (Gen. 5:3-5)
It is simple math. Calculated from agreed upon dates within history. How can the Bible be read any what BUT humans first appeared only a few millennium ago? And the flood spoken of was in 2500 BCE?
One common apologetic you may come across in this area is the claim “When the Jews wrote genealogies, they would ‘skip’ a generation. The word ‘begat’ does not necessarily mean a direct ancestor and the words ‘son of’ do not necessarily mean a direct ancestor.” The most common example utilized is the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew 1.
Matthew 1:1 states, “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham.” As we know Jesus was not the actual son of David, nor David the actual son of Abraham; this would seem to support the apologetic. However, the problem is that this is an introduction—not a specific genealogy. In fact, to demonstrate the point, the author immediate launches into a genealogy which clearly indicates the intended linage.
Within the genealogy itself, though, the author definitely engages in some generation-skipping. Matthew 1:8-9 only has “Joram -> Uzziah -> Jotham “ whereas 1 Chron. 3:11-12 has “Joram -> Uzziah (Ahaziah) -> Joash -> Amaziah -> Azariah -> Jotham.” Apparently the author missed a few! This is further complicated by the fact the author states he is grouping the genealogy in three (3) sets of 14, (Matt. 1:17). Did the author deliberately cut out a few in order to maintain this magic number? [Only to have a later copyist blow it anyway. If you count the names, there are only 41, demonstrating some copyist left one out!]
We see generation skipping in this genealogy. No question. Yet we also see a stated purpose for doing so (keeping the number to 14.) What was the stated purpose of the authors of the Genesis genealogies to skip generations?
Secondly, I have not found any demonstration it was common practice to skip generations in other genealogies. It should be mildly noted this is a circular argument:
1. We know it was common practice to skip generations because the Bible author does.
2. The Bible author skips generations because it was common practice to do so.
Thirdly—the one that puts a fork in it—these genealogies give very specific ages. Even if there WAS generation-skipping—it doesn’t change the numbers!
Assume, for an instant, the genealogy stated, “Abe begat Charles.” The apologist could claim, under this generation-skipping theory, the possibility of inserting “Bob” between “Abe” and “Charles—thus lengthening the time indicated. In fact, the apologist can insert “Bob,” “Bob, Jr.,” “Bob the III” and so on, and claim that “Abe begat Charles” was a period of 1000’s of years with hundreds of “Bob’s” in-between.
But that is not what we have. No, what WE have is “Abe begat Charles when Abe was 34.” A period of 34 years between Charles’ birth and Abe’s birth. If you want to insert a skipped generation—go ahead. It will still only be 34 years! We could insert “Bob” as follows: “Abe begat [Bob who begat] Charles when Abe was 34.” See how old Abe is? Still 34! See how many years have passed? 34.
This argument completely fails to understand that inserting generations doesn’t help it one bit, due to the specificity of numbers.
Since nothing is straightforward in Biblical studies, mention must be made about the Septuagint. A Greek translation of the Hebrew Tanakh which was complied some time in the Third Century BCE. The Septuagint has numerous ages within these genealogies where it adds 100 years to the age of the father. For example, instead of saying Adam had Seth at 130 years of age, the Septuagint states Adam was 230. Instead of Seth being 105, the Septuagint says 205. Enosh is 190 instead of 90 and so on.
There has been no cogent explanation for this seemingly arbitrary adding of 100 years. No explanation of translation issues, or even textual errors. I suspect the translators were already seeing the problem of placing history so close, especially with greater contact amongst foreign histories, and decided to lengthen the time as best they could. Even by adding 100 years, though, due to the limited number of people, at best this totals approximately 1400 years, placing Adam to 5500 BCE.
I am curious how Old Earth Creationists explain these dates. Was God s-l-o-w-l-y developing the earth and then… BAM! Hits it with humans 8000 years ago? Or do we not only analogize “days” to mean “millions and millions of years” in Genesis One, but start analogizing the humans listed? The genealogies? Those years?
The authors of Genesis’ intentions are clear. They thought humans had only been around for a short period of time. They were wrong. How much more could they be wrong about?
How much allegory can be read into numbers? How can anyone reading the Bible conform it to the evidence of humans existing before 6000 BCE? (I am always puzzled at the concept of Old Earth Creationists who accept science as “trumping” Genesis One regarding the age of the earth, but deny science “trumping” the Bible when it comes to cosmology or evolution. How did they pick one over the other?)
For some time I have wanted to go through the Tanakh to see how precise a dating system we can have, and I was given a reason to do so on a thread elsewhere. It was interesting enough. The easiest way to do this is to work backwards.
926 BCE – Shishak (also known as Pharaoh Shoshenq) attacks Rehoboam. (1 Kings 14:25-28; 2 Chron 12:1-12) Rohl has attempted (unsuccessfully) to claim this was, in fact, Ramesses II, not Shoshenq, which would move the date of this attack back by about 300 years. Rohl calls this a “New Chronology.” The problem with Rohl’s claim, is that Assyrian King Lists, as well as other histories, align with the current Egyptian chronology. In order to modify it, we also have to introduce, wiggle, wrestle and create elaborate possible explanations and wild theories to resolve the other histories. The simplest explanation, rather than turn the world upside down to somehow make the Bible align, is that this was Shoshenq. The vast predominance of Bible scholars agree.
931 BCE – Since the attack of Shishak occurred five years into Rehoboam’s reign, this would be the first year of Rehoboam and the last year of King Solomon.
971 BCE – Solomon starts to reign [He reigned for 40 years.] (1 Kings 11:42). Four years into his reign (967 BCE) he began to build the first temple. This is critical, because this date gives us our jumping off point to cover the time of David, Saul, Judges, Joshua and Exodus. We make a large leap back in time at this point.
1447 BCE – Exodus from Egypt. 1 Kings 6:1 says Solomon began to build the temple 480 years after the people left Egypt. The Septuagint says 440 years. (For the moment, I will use the Masoretic Texts) Adding 480 years to 967 BCE gives us 1447 BCE.*
*An anomaly. Paul claims in Galatians 3:17 the law was given 430 years after the covenant was made with Abraham. Abraham was 75 at the time of the covenant, (Gen. 12:1-4) which we will soon see was 2092 BCE. This would place the Exodus at 1662 BCE. I have seen on my internet travels, when apologists want to play funny with the dates, rather than use the 480 years of 1 Kings 6:1, they work around Abraham and Paul to move the date of the Exodus. I have not seen this contradiction addressed head-on.
1877 BCE – Jacob enters Egypt with his family. Exodus 12:40-41 says this was 430 years prior to the Exodus, fixing us to this particular date. It also conforms to the four hundred years predicted by God in Gen. 15:13-16**
**Anomaly Two. Exodus 6:16-20. We have the genealogy of Levi (son of Jacob) -> Kohath -> Amram -> Moses. Levi lived to be 137, Kohath 133, and Amram 137. However, Joseph was at least 30 (probably older) when the family moved to Egypt, and Levi was his older brother, so the most conservative age would have Levi being 31 when the family moved to Egypt. Adding all the time: Levi [137], Kohat [133], Amram [137] and Moses up to the time the people left [80], subtracting the time Levi did not live in Egypt [-31] puts us at 457 years. Close to the 430 years, true? But this would mean each of the individuals had their sons very, very late in life. All of them would have to be over 100 years old.
At the moment we have a date certain (1877 BCE) to work backwards from. The method of doing so is simple. Jacob was 130 years old when he entered Egypt. (Gen. 47:9) Therefore we can determine the year he was born. 1877 BCE + 130 years = 2007 BCE. We are told Isaac was 60 years old when he had Jacob. (Gen. 25:26; Gen. 35:28-29) Now we can calculate the year Isaac was born. 2007 BCE + 60 years = 2067 BCE.
With the simple process we can progress backward and use the age of the fathers at the time of the birth to calculate the year the father was born. Where were we? Ah, yes—Isaac.
2067 BCE – Isaac Born.
2167 BCE – Abraham Born. (He was 100 when Isaac was Born. Gen 21:5; 25:7)
2237 BCE – Terah Born (Gen 11:26; 11:32)
2266 BCE – Nahor Born (Gen. 11:24-25)
2296 BCE – Serug Born (Gen. 11:22-23)
2328 BCE – Reu Born (Gen. 11:20-21
2358 BCE – Peleg Born (Gen. 11:18-19)
2392 BCE – Eber Born (Gen. 11:16-17)
Eber named Peleg because of the Great Divide. The Tower of Babel. (Gen. 10:25). This would place the event of the Tower of Babel between 2392 BCE (Eber’s birth) and 2358 BCE (naming of Peleg).
2422 BCE – Salah Born. (Gen. 11:14-15)
2457 BCE – Arphaxad Born (Gen. 11:12-13)***
***Another Anomaly. According to Luke 3:36, a fellow named “Cainen” is inserted between Salah and Arphaxad. P75, one of the earliest manuscripts we have of Luke does not have Cainen. Further, Josephus, in his similar genealogy in Antiquities 1.6.5 does not have Cainen. Curious.
2459 BCE – Flood (Gen. 10:10-11)
2557 BCE – Shem Born (Gen. 11:10-11; 5:32)
3059 BCE – Noah Born. (Gen. 9:29)
Interesting to see Noah lived 950 years, or from 3059 BCE to 2109 BCE. Notice Noah was alive at the time of the Tower of Babel!
3241 BCE – Lamech (Gen. 5:28-31)
3428 BCE – Methuselah (Gen. 5:25-27)
Methuselah. Oldest recorded living person in the Tanakh at 969 years of age. 3428 BCE – 969 years = 2459 BCE. Year of the Flood. Coincidence?
3493 BCE – Enoch (Gen 5:21-24)
3655 BCE – Jared (Gen. 5:18-20)
3720 BCE – Mahalalel (Gen. 5:15-17)
3790 BCE – Cainen (Gen. 5:12-14)
3880 BCE – Enosh (Gen. 5:9-11)
3985 BCE – Seth (Gen. 5:6-8)
4115 BCE – Adam (Gen. 5:3-5)
It is simple math. Calculated from agreed upon dates within history. How can the Bible be read any what BUT humans first appeared only a few millennium ago? And the flood spoken of was in 2500 BCE?
One common apologetic you may come across in this area is the claim “When the Jews wrote genealogies, they would ‘skip’ a generation. The word ‘begat’ does not necessarily mean a direct ancestor and the words ‘son of’ do not necessarily mean a direct ancestor.” The most common example utilized is the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew 1.
Matthew 1:1 states, “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham.” As we know Jesus was not the actual son of David, nor David the actual son of Abraham; this would seem to support the apologetic. However, the problem is that this is an introduction—not a specific genealogy. In fact, to demonstrate the point, the author immediate launches into a genealogy which clearly indicates the intended linage.
Within the genealogy itself, though, the author definitely engages in some generation-skipping. Matthew 1:8-9 only has “Joram -> Uzziah -> Jotham “ whereas 1 Chron. 3:11-12 has “Joram -> Uzziah (Ahaziah) -> Joash -> Amaziah -> Azariah -> Jotham.” Apparently the author missed a few! This is further complicated by the fact the author states he is grouping the genealogy in three (3) sets of 14, (Matt. 1:17). Did the author deliberately cut out a few in order to maintain this magic number? [Only to have a later copyist blow it anyway. If you count the names, there are only 41, demonstrating some copyist left one out!]
We see generation skipping in this genealogy. No question. Yet we also see a stated purpose for doing so (keeping the number to 14.) What was the stated purpose of the authors of the Genesis genealogies to skip generations?
Secondly, I have not found any demonstration it was common practice to skip generations in other genealogies. It should be mildly noted this is a circular argument:
1. We know it was common practice to skip generations because the Bible author does.
2. The Bible author skips generations because it was common practice to do so.
Thirdly—the one that puts a fork in it—these genealogies give very specific ages. Even if there WAS generation-skipping—it doesn’t change the numbers!
Assume, for an instant, the genealogy stated, “Abe begat Charles.” The apologist could claim, under this generation-skipping theory, the possibility of inserting “Bob” between “Abe” and “Charles—thus lengthening the time indicated. In fact, the apologist can insert “Bob,” “Bob, Jr.,” “Bob the III” and so on, and claim that “Abe begat Charles” was a period of 1000’s of years with hundreds of “Bob’s” in-between.
But that is not what we have. No, what WE have is “Abe begat Charles when Abe was 34.” A period of 34 years between Charles’ birth and Abe’s birth. If you want to insert a skipped generation—go ahead. It will still only be 34 years! We could insert “Bob” as follows: “Abe begat [Bob who begat] Charles when Abe was 34.” See how old Abe is? Still 34! See how many years have passed? 34.
This argument completely fails to understand that inserting generations doesn’t help it one bit, due to the specificity of numbers.
Since nothing is straightforward in Biblical studies, mention must be made about the Septuagint. A Greek translation of the Hebrew Tanakh which was complied some time in the Third Century BCE. The Septuagint has numerous ages within these genealogies where it adds 100 years to the age of the father. For example, instead of saying Adam had Seth at 130 years of age, the Septuagint states Adam was 230. Instead of Seth being 105, the Septuagint says 205. Enosh is 190 instead of 90 and so on.
There has been no cogent explanation for this seemingly arbitrary adding of 100 years. No explanation of translation issues, or even textual errors. I suspect the translators were already seeing the problem of placing history so close, especially with greater contact amongst foreign histories, and decided to lengthen the time as best they could. Even by adding 100 years, though, due to the limited number of people, at best this totals approximately 1400 years, placing Adam to 5500 BCE.
I am curious how Old Earth Creationists explain these dates. Was God s-l-o-w-l-y developing the earth and then… BAM! Hits it with humans 8000 years ago? Or do we not only analogize “days” to mean “millions and millions of years” in Genesis One, but start analogizing the humans listed? The genealogies? Those years?
The authors of Genesis’ intentions are clear. They thought humans had only been around for a short period of time. They were wrong. How much more could they be wrong about?
Wednesday, June 04, 2008
The Shark Bible
“But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!” Shark 5:15.
We often hear the complaint about the God of the gaps. Within discussions surrounding the development of the universe, or the evolution of biological life, the cringe at the cry of “Goddidit.” Yet I see this spill over into other areas of discussion—the same reliance of inserting and asserting a god to bolster a claim.
The other day, listening to Christian Radio, I heard the enthusiastic claim, “Without God there is no way to put value on human life. Humans have as much value as an apple or a blade of grass.” How is whether there is a god or not modify value of humanity from our perspective? What is the great gauge in the sky that tells us of relative worth, and the pointer indicting how humans fall on the scale?
I see theists wrestling with the same issues of determining the value of lives, and instead of coming to grips with how to do that, flatly state, “There is a god. And my god values human life,” swish their hands together and think they somehow made an argument. Simply asserting a god exists and then imposing what you think value should be upon your god does not an argument make.
As humans, it is somewhat easy to have another human agree with us the human species has value. Talk about preaching to the choir! It is almost intrinsic we agree our own kind has worth, because we believe in our own worth. Yet go outside of our species, and convince them of your value!
Imagine being in the water with a great white shark, and convincing it you have value. The only value you have to a shark is as a meal. (Not what we have in mind when we use the term “value,” is it!) A shark may convince another shark that their species has worth, but when it comes to the human species in the water, we are lower on the food chain.
If the sharks had a god, and the sharks had a Bible, it would proclaim the value of sharks. The sharks’ god would value sharks’ lives.
How do we determine “value” when it comes to biological species? “Value” is a compared worth of good within the market place. A baseball is worth a coupla bucks. A baseball signed by Babe Ruth is worth a great deal more. Each is just a baseball; one is even smudged with someone writing on it. In our marketplace we “value” that ink smudge more than 15,000 brand-new unsmudged baseballs.
When it comes to species, though, this because a far greater difficulty. What is a human compared to a flower? What if the flower contained an element which cured all cancer? What is a human compared to two humans? Or three humans? Even within our own species we manage to devaluate other humans. Think of war—we are willing to kill the soldiers for the other side, consider them “less value” than keeping our comrades alive.
We are willing to kill 10’s of 1,000’s of civilians in war to protect ourselves. In the marketplace of value, we consider our own citizenry of higher value to protect than the citizenry of another country.
Even if a god exists; it is not informing us as to value. For all we know, it does consider sharks more valuable. They’ve been around longer, and haven’t yet found the need to evolve. Sure, they don’t have opposable thumbs…but with those teeth and that speed—how needs thumbs?
We can see how people throughout history have used “Goddidit” to justify devaluing others. The Aztecs would offer captives as sacrifices to continue the sun on its course. The life of the captive was worth less than the lives of the captor. The Jews devalued those living on land they wanted, and boldly proclaimed it was God who had made the value determination. (Deut. 20:17-19). However, if the Jews wanted…say…some female virgins—their God (coincidentally, we are sure) did a role reversal and ordered them to value the female virgins. Not the little boys or the already married, of course. (Numbers 31)
The authors of the New Testament considered the teachings of females of less value than that of males. Lo and behold, their God did too! (1 Tim. 2:12) Over and over, we observe this technique: 1) Assert a God, 2) Make the God value what you want to value.
Christians would like to claim humans have value because of their God, yet even that brings struggle. What has more value to a Christian: life or a soul? If a person died, yet their soul was saved, many Christians would consider a soul of higher value than life. What has more value to a Christian: human life or God’s glory? Many Christians would claim the ultimate value was the glory of God. God could kill a human to demonstrate his Glory, and a Christian would have to say this has more value. (Rom. 9:20-24)
So why DO we value other humans? Whether you like it or not, I think it is a matter of similarity. We value other humans because they are similar to us, and we consider ourselves to have value. If we were sharks, we would likewise consider other sharks to have more worth.
This translates to relations among humans as well. Think about it, right now some 19-year-old kid is aiming his rifle at another 19-year-old kid. Each has brothers, sisters, parents, friends. Each considers themselves of value. Each is willing to kill the other. Why? Because the other 19-year-old is more dissimilar than the kid’s parents, family, country members, etc. It matters not which side of the battlefield we spot this kid—each is willing to kill the other out of the same dissimilarity.
Using a god to get one off the hook of attempting to make these decisions doesn’t work anymore. God hasn’t given us a value system, and those who don’t believe in a God see you are only using God to impose your own values.
We often hear the complaint about the God of the gaps. Within discussions surrounding the development of the universe, or the evolution of biological life, the cringe at the cry of “Goddidit.” Yet I see this spill over into other areas of discussion—the same reliance of inserting and asserting a god to bolster a claim.
The other day, listening to Christian Radio, I heard the enthusiastic claim, “Without God there is no way to put value on human life. Humans have as much value as an apple or a blade of grass.” How is whether there is a god or not modify value of humanity from our perspective? What is the great gauge in the sky that tells us of relative worth, and the pointer indicting how humans fall on the scale?
I see theists wrestling with the same issues of determining the value of lives, and instead of coming to grips with how to do that, flatly state, “There is a god. And my god values human life,” swish their hands together and think they somehow made an argument. Simply asserting a god exists and then imposing what you think value should be upon your god does not an argument make.
As humans, it is somewhat easy to have another human agree with us the human species has value. Talk about preaching to the choir! It is almost intrinsic we agree our own kind has worth, because we believe in our own worth. Yet go outside of our species, and convince them of your value!
Imagine being in the water with a great white shark, and convincing it you have value. The only value you have to a shark is as a meal. (Not what we have in mind when we use the term “value,” is it!) A shark may convince another shark that their species has worth, but when it comes to the human species in the water, we are lower on the food chain.
If the sharks had a god, and the sharks had a Bible, it would proclaim the value of sharks. The sharks’ god would value sharks’ lives.
How do we determine “value” when it comes to biological species? “Value” is a compared worth of good within the market place. A baseball is worth a coupla bucks. A baseball signed by Babe Ruth is worth a great deal more. Each is just a baseball; one is even smudged with someone writing on it. In our marketplace we “value” that ink smudge more than 15,000 brand-new unsmudged baseballs.
When it comes to species, though, this because a far greater difficulty. What is a human compared to a flower? What if the flower contained an element which cured all cancer? What is a human compared to two humans? Or three humans? Even within our own species we manage to devaluate other humans. Think of war—we are willing to kill the soldiers for the other side, consider them “less value” than keeping our comrades alive.
We are willing to kill 10’s of 1,000’s of civilians in war to protect ourselves. In the marketplace of value, we consider our own citizenry of higher value to protect than the citizenry of another country.
Even if a god exists; it is not informing us as to value. For all we know, it does consider sharks more valuable. They’ve been around longer, and haven’t yet found the need to evolve. Sure, they don’t have opposable thumbs…but with those teeth and that speed—how needs thumbs?
We can see how people throughout history have used “Goddidit” to justify devaluing others. The Aztecs would offer captives as sacrifices to continue the sun on its course. The life of the captive was worth less than the lives of the captor. The Jews devalued those living on land they wanted, and boldly proclaimed it was God who had made the value determination. (Deut. 20:17-19). However, if the Jews wanted…say…some female virgins—their God (coincidentally, we are sure) did a role reversal and ordered them to value the female virgins. Not the little boys or the already married, of course. (Numbers 31)
The authors of the New Testament considered the teachings of females of less value than that of males. Lo and behold, their God did too! (1 Tim. 2:12) Over and over, we observe this technique: 1) Assert a God, 2) Make the God value what you want to value.
Christians would like to claim humans have value because of their God, yet even that brings struggle. What has more value to a Christian: life or a soul? If a person died, yet their soul was saved, many Christians would consider a soul of higher value than life. What has more value to a Christian: human life or God’s glory? Many Christians would claim the ultimate value was the glory of God. God could kill a human to demonstrate his Glory, and a Christian would have to say this has more value. (Rom. 9:20-24)
So why DO we value other humans? Whether you like it or not, I think it is a matter of similarity. We value other humans because they are similar to us, and we consider ourselves to have value. If we were sharks, we would likewise consider other sharks to have more worth.
This translates to relations among humans as well. Think about it, right now some 19-year-old kid is aiming his rifle at another 19-year-old kid. Each has brothers, sisters, parents, friends. Each considers themselves of value. Each is willing to kill the other. Why? Because the other 19-year-old is more dissimilar than the kid’s parents, family, country members, etc. It matters not which side of the battlefield we spot this kid—each is willing to kill the other out of the same dissimilarity.
Using a god to get one off the hook of attempting to make these decisions doesn’t work anymore. God hasn’t given us a value system, and those who don’t believe in a God see you are only using God to impose your own values.
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