tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post4684700640470600383..comments2024-01-25T00:50:10.679-05:00Comments on Thoughts from a Sandwich: “Dear Gary”…a continuing conversationDagoodShttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04557451438888314932noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-45123131584511156652014-09-12T01:43:29.877-04:002014-09-12T01:43:29.877-04:00If anyone wants to jump in on a fascination conver...If anyone wants to jump in on a fascination conversation with my former fundamentalist Lutherans and evangelicals, click here:<br /><br />http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2014/09/how-scholars-proved-that-the-wife-of-jesus-text-is-a-forgery/#disqus_threadGaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-64620546781212958012014-09-11T23:28:33.613-04:002014-09-11T23:28:33.613-04:00Thanks. Good to hear from you.Thanks. Good to hear from you.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-68911630242550849982014-09-11T14:28:35.768-04:002014-09-11T14:28:35.768-04:00Oh, my no, Gary. I am just terribly busy at the m...Oh, my no, Gary. I am just terribly busy at the moment. Autumn is always quite hectic. My son plays soccer, I play soccer (two teams), we both referee soccer, and between all that I am keeping up my running to do a ½ marathon in October.<br /><br />Not to mention work, family, etc. In about 3 hours I am off for the weekend with a bunch of fellows to play golf & footgolf. <br /><br />Just that sort of life. <br /><br />I was going to write out a response to your question on Hell, but I see sgl very kindly did all the heavy lifting and searched what I had said about it in the past. I recommend reading the first link in his comment. That DagoodS person says it as well as I can! *grin*<br />DagoodShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04557451438888314932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-50120811917138653232014-09-11T14:03:11.464-04:002014-09-11T14:03:11.464-04:00Dagood,
Have I done something to offend you? I h...Dagood,<br /><br />Have I done something to offend you? I have tried to think of what it might be and the only think I come up with is that your photo appears on my blog.<br /><br />However, I did not put your photo there. Blogger did. When you left your comments with Rev. John Bombaro, the photo you have on this blog appears. Somehow Blogger pulled that photo onto my blog.<br /><br />If it offends you, I am willing to delete the entire post.<br /><br />GaryGaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-88655901663686111202014-09-10T02:19:26.510-04:002014-09-10T02:19:26.510-04:00searching dagoods blog for "hell" and &q...searching dagoods blog for "hell" and "fear of hell" turned up a number of posts, of which the 2 below seemed the most relevant:<br /><br />http://sandwichesforsale.blogspot.com/2012/04/losing-fear-of-hell.html<br /><br />http://sandwichesforsale.blogspot.com/2011/01/wrestling-with-christianity.htmlsglnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-85730516281759937852014-09-09T17:31:45.074-04:002014-09-09T17:31:45.074-04:00Very good analogy, Liza.Very good analogy, Liza.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-56997533129844629292014-09-09T15:00:32.063-04:002014-09-09T15:00:32.063-04:00I am not Dagoods...but i will offer a reply. Once...I am not Dagoods...but i will offer a reply. Once I really understood the evolution of the idea of hell, and that it was something added to Christian belief, I very rarely ever worried about it any longer.<br /><br />That may be because losing my belief in hell was the starting point in losing my faith. It was the moment where I finally realized that I believed things that had just been completely made up over time. Initially, I thought that losing the idea of hell was a step in getting closer to the real truth about God and what I should believe. I certainly wasn't entertaining losing my faith. I was actually trying to refine it. However, once you see behind the curtain of one doctrine, you begin to see behind them all.<br /><br />When you start to worry about hell, you need to talk yourself down from the panic. Remind yourself about what you know about how the idea came into being.<br /><br />Also, remind yourself how illogical and vindictive it would be for an all-knowing and all-loving God to create people that would suffer eternally for simply thinking/believing the wrong thing.<br /><br />When you realize that a person's version of God is worse than a serial killer, or is competing with Hitler for "most psychotic personality" then it is easy to talk yourself down.<br /><br />lizaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-81627409575212875172014-09-08T16:31:05.126-04:002014-09-08T16:31:05.126-04:00Dagood,
Nice to know you are still kicking! I wa...Dagood,<br /><br />Nice to know you are still kicking! I was getting a little worried about you.<br /><br />I have a question for you. You and I were both raised Baptist/evangelical and we have both now completely deconverted from any form of Christianity. How long did it take you to get over your fear of Hell? That nagging fear that maybe you made a mistake by abandoning your Faith and now when you die you will writhe in horrific torment, burning forever in the flames of Hell? Or worse, you will be the cause of your children burning in hell for all eternity?<br /><br />It has been three months since I deconverted from Christianity and I am feeling better and better about it every day, but every once in a while, the fear of eternal damnation rears its ugly head. How did you get over it, or did you?<br /><br />My brain tells me it is silly nonsense, but the little child in my psyche still remembers all those hellfire and damnation sermons.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-54976876440333863842014-09-07T17:53:02.519-04:002014-09-07T17:53:02.519-04:00Dagoods,
Hello from a fellow (former) Michigander....Dagoods,<br />Hello from a fellow (former) Michigander. I discovered your deconversion story a few days ago and have read every chapter. It's all SO familiar; you could have been in my youth group growing up. Because I too am the wife of a deconvert, I was very interested in your wife's reaction, and wonder if you are at liberty to give an update on what has happened in the intervening years.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-46990646906480065522014-07-16T19:06:18.871-04:002014-07-16T19:06:18.871-04:00I don't know if I have left you this message, ...I don't know if I have left you this message, Dagood, but I will now: THANK YOU.<br /><br />Thank you for helping me to see the superstitious cult that is fundamentalist Christianity. I have deconverted. I believe that there may be a Creator God, but he is not the Christian god. There is too much evidence that the Christian god Yahweh is nothing more than the imagination of ancient, superstitious, ignorant Canaanites.<br /><br />Thank you to you, to Bruce Gerencser, to Ruth, Zoe, and so many others.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-44463615083758691132014-07-08T21:42:19.923-04:002014-07-08T21:42:19.923-04:00Dagood,
The orthodox Lutherans put a Christian at...Dagood,<br /><br />The orthodox Lutherans put a Christian attorney/apologist on their national public radio show to discuss the evidence for the Resurrection. In his discussion, he scoffs at any attorney who questions the idea that there is not enough evidence to prove the Resurrection in a court of law. I bet you will find him very amusing:<br /><br />http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/2014/07/examining-evidence-for-resurrection-of_1393.htmlGaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-37140267906061905862014-06-20T16:16:34.129-04:002014-06-20T16:16:34.129-04:00Or better yet, would you copy and paste it and put...Or better yet, would you copy and paste it and put it under today's post: "Did Jesus kill millions of Children and Babies?"Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-45691737039828578192014-06-20T16:15:28.793-04:002014-06-20T16:15:28.793-04:00Thanks! May I copy and paste your comment to my b...Thanks! May I copy and paste your comment to my blog?Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-38147107412423274332014-06-20T14:38:26.451-04:002014-06-20T14:38:26.451-04:00Sorry ‘bout that Gary. I thought you were doing a...Sorry ‘bout that Gary. I thought you were doing a fine job on your blog covering the topic. <br /><br />If ever entering a discussion, the first and foremost item is to nail down when the Christian claims the Exodus occurs. I find they want to bring in all sorts of evidence from various times, and never commit to a particular century. <br /><br />The Exodus saga contains three basic parts—the Israelites in captivity with the Ten Plagues, the Travel, and then the conquest of Canaan. I find Christians often pull evidence from the 25th century BCE to prove the Plagues, the 16th Century BCE to prove the Exodus and then the 14th Century BC to prove conquest. As one can see, this is a huge difference.<br /><br />Egypt could not have survived the Ten Plagues as described. Even the most stringent inerrantist I have ever talked to admits there is some exaggeration going on there. Otherwise Egypt would have disappeared from the map. As you point out, there is no archeological evidence for the Exodus itself (certainly nothing for the month or so the Red [or Reed] Sea would be stopped up to allow passage across.) And while we can obtain bits and pieces of battles in Canaan, again there is no evidence of a massive invasion and conquest by foreigners.<br /><br />Oddly, the philosophical questions (assuming the story is allegory) raise even bigger issues. Can God interfere with Free Will like he did with Pharaoh? Did God order the rape and murder of innocent Midianites? What does a God need with virgin females and gold? How could God wipe out the entire Egyptian army, but the Philistines are too scary for Him? <br /><br />No…this is a nationalistic tale by Canaanites to justify their entitled to land where many tribes once roamed. Simple as that.<br />DagoodShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04557451438888314932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-70931168525924372442014-06-19T19:21:11.357-04:002014-06-19T19:21:11.357-04:00Hey Dagood,
You are either not checking your comm...Hey Dagood,<br /><br />You are either not checking your comments box or you don't like my question. What do you think of the lack of evidence for the Exodus?Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-77601067762421550262014-06-13T21:14:38.498-04:002014-06-13T21:14:38.498-04:00Dagood,
Do you have any other information on the ...Dagood,<br /><br />Do you have any other information on the issue of the lack of archaeological evidence for the Patriarchs, the Exodus, wandering for forty years in the Sinai, the conquest of Canaan?<br /><br />It seems to me that it is this lack of evidence that seals the doom of orthodox Christianity.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-72229884340116727802014-06-02T23:54:52.117-04:002014-06-02T23:54:52.117-04:00Dagood,
I was wondering why we haven't heard ...Dagood,<br /><br />I was wondering why we haven't heard anymore from Pastor Bombaro, but I just found out that a family in the church just suffered a terrible tragedy, so that is probably what has detained him.<br /><br />However, a Southern Baptist pastor has taken up the cause of defending the Resurrection. I would be interested to see your counter arguments to him since the three of us all come from a Baptist/evangelical background. Here is the post he commented under if you care to engage him:<br /><br />http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/2014/06/does-anyone-have-evidence-for.htmlGaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-79485420201402537462014-06-02T08:23:16.687-04:002014-06-02T08:23:16.687-04:00why don't christians learn arabic and meet the...why don't christians learn arabic and meet the koran challenge which says to produce a chapter like the koran?<br /><br /><br />this is a challenge for you TODAY.<br /><br />this is a challenge the moslim apologists wants you to meet TODAY<br /><br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38b0gRL5rzI<br /><br /><br />so there you go. a non-miracle like an EVERLIVING god rising from death is a non MIRACLE for an EVERLIVING god.<br /><br />the moslim says that the koran CAN be disproved today today simply by creating a SHORT text with over 40 RHETORICAL devices.<br /><br />so will you apologists try to prove the koran is a non miracle ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-68391181720274732372014-05-28T21:01:41.532-04:002014-05-28T21:01:41.532-04:00Dagood:
Here is something else to chew on. I hav...Dagood:<br /><br />Here is something else to chew on. I have learned that there is a difference between how orthodox Lutherans use the word "inerrancy" and that of fundamentalists and evangelicals. This definition if not the same as what is stated in the Chicago Statement on Inerrancy, which some LCMS leaders did sign. (I don't think they should have, but this document is not binding on the denomination). I also believe that the LCMS Doctrinal Statements infer a "fundamentalist" definition of inerrancy, but according to the LCMS pastors, it is not the same.<br /><br />It is a very interesting definition, but I will bet that you still won't buy it:<br /><br />http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/2014/05/lcms-pastor-martin-noland-clarifies.html<br /><br />Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-23845894418654505222014-05-28T20:18:42.549-04:002014-05-28T20:18:42.549-04:00Dagood and those interested:
Pastor Bombaro has i...Dagood and those interested:<br /><br />Pastor Bombaro has initiated the discussion with Dagood regarding the historicity, and evidence thereof, for the Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. To keep the conversation on track, I will only be allowing comments under this particular post, on my blog, from Dagood and Pastor Bombaro.<br /><br />http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/2014/05/lcms-pastor-addresses-atheists-on.htmlGaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-84090877152900916602014-05-28T10:46:27.884-04:002014-05-28T10:46:27.884-04:00Dagood,
Pastor Bombaro will engage you in discuss...Dagood,<br /><br />Pastor Bombaro will engage you in discussion under this post on my blog:<br /><br />http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/2014/05/lcms-pastor-addresses-atheists-on.htmlGaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-49072775232863190432014-05-28T10:44:22.010-04:002014-05-28T10:44:22.010-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-15533870876111292842014-05-28T10:42:31.154-04:002014-05-28T10:42:31.154-04:00I have found an orthodox Lutheran pastor who says ...I have found an orthodox Lutheran pastor who says he will engage you in discussion. He is my own pastor. He has a doctorate in divinity and teaches at a local university so he should be a good debate opponent for you. May the best man win.<br /><br />Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-30303876997979796372014-05-28T09:28:44.349-04:002014-05-28T09:28:44.349-04:00I’m sorry, Gary. If your journey is even remotely...I’m sorry, Gary. If your journey is even remotely similar to my own—you will find more and more Pastors who run away. <br /><br />I could give numerous examples where I would happily discuss topics with individuals, and they declined to continue. And…to be fair to them…I am a hurricane force to be reckoned with. I speak very quickly—you have seen my verbosity in writing, imagine how many more words I can cover while speaking. I argue for a living; I am familiar with how to do so, style, content and presentation. And…worst of all…I know the topic at least as well as they do.<br /><br />It is little things like Pastor Cooper relying upon J.A.T. Robinson’s dating of New Testament documents, yet disagreeing with Robinson’s very premises in doing so. Like saying, “The points in your argument are incorrect, but the conclusion you derive from those points is correct.” <br /><br />Now recognizing the (Protestant) Bible was made by humans capable of making mistakes and there are errors within, just like other documents in history, , the next question would be this—What method do we use to determine what is historical and what is legendary within the Christian accounts?<br />DagoodShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04557451438888314932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-89311553641401923422014-05-28T05:23:54.799-04:002014-05-28T05:23:54.799-04:00Sounds like the pastor is getting uncomfortable wi...Sounds like the pastor is getting uncomfortable with the discrepancies. Zoenoreply@blogger.com