tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post6077974644770666322..comments2024-01-25T00:50:10.679-05:00Comments on Thoughts from a Sandwich: Can't RelateDagoodShttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04557451438888314932noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-71717263811281989722007-04-13T12:43:00.000-04:002007-04-13T12:43:00.000-04:00Great post, dagoods. When people talk about eterni...Great post, dagoods. When people talk about eternity, it just boggles my mind. It never ends! We cannot comprehend that. I can't comprehend being in bliss or torment for eternity; I don't see how either is possible-- that doesn't mean it's not possible, but I sure don't understand it. Great point about not knowing God's law, too. I still can't figure out how an unchanging God's law changed with a "new covenant." Doesn't that mean He changed His mind? <BR/><BR/>Also, I hate the "God's justice is above our justice" argument. If we can't understand it, why is He even described as just!!?? I agree with you on so many points here, I could go on and on. Thanks for a well-written post.JumpingFromConclusionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15776801983276051980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-70968229596614312732007-04-13T10:57:00.000-04:002007-04-13T10:57:00.000-04:00dagoods,your title pretty much sums it up "can't r...dagoods,<BR/>your title pretty much sums it up "can't relate." With the example of child birth, you can at least have 2% relation, and, you have a huge chunk of the populace confirming "it's very painful, I know, I gave birth, here's the kid to prove it," etc. With an afterlife, no one can "relate." No one have even survived to tell about it.paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04437206493901034134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-47159891975623945522007-04-13T00:01:00.000-04:002007-04-13T00:01:00.000-04:00**I understand that his hope in heaven also comes ...**I understand that his hope in heaven also comes with the hopelessness of watching and knowing the bulk of humanity suffering eternal torment. Talk about survivor's guilt!!**<BR/><BR/>Indeed. And no matter how it's spun, it still looks bad. I've heard that no one will mourn because in heaven, they'll see those in hell in their 'true' form aka full of sin and thus disguisting. But then shouldn't those people be pitied, since they'll still stuck in that? <BR/><BR/>Or that they'll celebrate over God's justice. But what does it say about a person who would celebrate over someone eternally suffering, or eternally alone? <BR/><BR/>Or God will wipe about the memories of the 'damned' and thus no one will have a reason to mourn. Except that's right up there with mind-rape, and, honestly, think about how many 'damned' the 'saved' come into contact with everyday, and so think about what removing those memories would do to the person. <BR/><BR/>In today's times, if someone wasn't bothered by the suffering of someone else, we would call that inhumane. Why then, does that stop after death? <BR/><BR/>I do believe in God. But I can't believe in a God that damns people to hell, or allows people to send themselves there, or however someone wants to put it. I can't see people that way.OneSmallStephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08189124855157679020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-89593825889989550542007-04-12T22:26:00.000-04:002007-04-12T22:26:00.000-04:00Thus saith DagoodS:"Recently (due to other discuss...Thus saith DagoodS:<BR/>"Recently (due to other discussions elsewhere) I was thinking about an afterlife. One common disgruntlement with naturalism is that there is no afterlife. Somehow this is automatically equated with hopelessness while living. "<BR/><BR/>If I am thinking about the discussion I think you are talking about, I immediately thought of the same things you did. He may have hope for a heaven, and wonder what hope an athiest sees after death. While I am not an athiest, I understand that his hope in heaven also comes with the hopelessness of watching and knowing the bulk of humanity suffering eternal torment. Talk about survivor's guilt!! I used to look at people in two camps: saved and damned, and there was nothing I could do for the damned but grieve. My own mother was included in the damned, and I used to anguish over that fact. Taken to it's logical conclusion, there is no hope in eternal paradise. Knowing that everyone else was being tormented would probably drive me mad. A God like that cannot exist - it simply makes no sense, and I refuse to let that neurosis ruin my real hope in my real life - my life that may only last a few more decades.HeIsSailinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09154368305822276669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-21936278942081841822007-04-12T14:44:00.000-04:002007-04-12T14:44:00.000-04:00** if we do not know God’s Justice, to the exact s...** if we do not know God’s Justice, to the exact same degree, we cannot know his mercy. If any. **<BR/><BR/>Basically, how it's coming across is that you can question God so long as you agree with a certain viewpoint. If I say to a conservative Christian, "God is Love," they'll enthusiastically agree with me and say I'm 100% on target. If I say, "An eternal torment for lack of belief isn't just," then I'm just deluded and hiding in my sins. Okay, but they can't have it both ways. <BR/><BR/>**He used Abraham as an example of how we all know the difference between right and wrong. ** Okay, that made me giggle. Abraham is the worst example. He's a great example of blind obedience, in terms of not protesting. But moral? If so, then anyone who kills their child today and says it's because God demanded it is also moral.OneSmallStephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08189124855157679020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-69405775443174087872007-04-11T19:19:00.000-04:002007-04-11T19:19:00.000-04:00Heather, you are right. I have written quite a bi...Heather, you are right. I have written quite a bit on how, if we do not know God’s Justice, to the exact same degree, we cannot know his mercy. If any. <BR/><BR/>As to the universal morality (or what I have seen called “intuitive morality”) probably the funniest use of that claim that I ever saw was Greg Koukl in his resolution to the Euthyphro Dilemma.<BR/><BR/>He used Abraham as an example of how we all know the difference between right and wrong. Abraham! Excuse me? Isn’t this the guy who, when an authoritative figure asked him to kill his own son just to prove his loyalty, he replied, “Sure. No Problem.”<BR/><BR/><B>That</B> is an example of universal morality? The LAST person I would use as an example of this is a guy willing to commit child sacrifice just to please the whim of a dictator.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, it was so ludicrous, I found it funny.DagoodShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04557451438888314932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-26085177089004240852007-04-11T17:50:00.000-04:002007-04-11T17:50:00.000-04:00**Even theists inform me that my puny mind cannot ...**Even theists inform me that my puny mind cannot process the ideas of God, and his Justice, and an afterlife. ** Wouldn't this also go in reverse, though? If our minds can't comprehend God's justice, then how are they supposed to comprehend God's love, mercy, and all the other attributes? Or anything of God, period? In which case, what exactly is one worshipping? <BR/><BR/>What I love about this argument is that I find the concept of an eternal punishment for lack of belief unfair and immoral. I'm told that God's justice/fairness is above mine. Okay. But this is the same God that imparts a universal morality, and so doesn't my finding an eternal torment immoral say that I'm getting it from God?OneSmallStephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08189124855157679020noreply@blogger.com