tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post114562288743317951..comments2024-01-25T00:50:10.679-05:00Comments on Thoughts from a Sandwich: Anybody see my morals?DagoodShttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04557451438888314932noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-1145924219738725812006-04-24T20:16:00.000-04:002006-04-24T20:16:00.000-04:00I did not mean to come across as hard on moe hamme...I did not mean to come across as hard on moe hammered. Just wanted him to know that steve was an atheist. He wrote good points as it was.<BR/><BR/>I keep a low profile with a name “thoughts from a sandwich” that does not attract too many drive-by theists. <BR/><BR/>And I agree, I like the trenches and the high ground as well. “Variety being the spice of life” and all!<BR/><BR/>victorycheese, elsewhere I just read about how atheists also have faith. I agree, and as I responded to steve, I am stumped on this one. What do I believe with lack of evidence? Unless every crazy possibility that could ever exist, including the moon’s core is not made of cheese must be on “faith.”<BR/><BR/>Steve, love to see you blog this out.DagoodShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04557451438888314932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-1145820749094865342006-04-23T15:32:00.000-04:002006-04-23T15:32:00.000-04:00moe hammered, steve is an atheist. He just likes ...moe hammered, <BR/><BR/>steve is an atheist. He just likes to make me think. :-)<BR/><BR/>Traditionally, “strong” atheists positively assert, “There is no God” and “weak” atheists say they are unconvinced by the evidence that there is a God. Pragmatically, both tend to be naturalists, so we seem the same.<BR/><BR/>Good arguments can be given as to why each is the more rational position. I just can’t bring myself to say, “I lack belief in a god” when I am firmly convinced there is no such creature.<BR/><BR/>It is, however, important to recognize the differing positions.DagoodShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04557451438888314932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-1145801092129515442006-04-23T10:04:00.000-04:002006-04-23T10:04:00.000-04:00steve, thanks. I don’t normally do this, because ...steve, thanks. <BR/><BR/>I don’t normally do this, because I can see why theists find the comparison insulting, but bear with me:<BR/><BR/>Theoretically, we give Santa Clause magic, which means it is possible that he hides at the North Pole, delivers gifts to needy children, and is an actual person. However, the possibility of such an entity is so remote, we do not say, “The evidence fails to convince me there is a Santa Clause” we simply say, “There is no Santa Clause.”<BR/><BR/>Do you know how many millions of strong atheists there are? Almost every single theist is one! They have picked their god, and affirmatively state, as to other god-concepts, “That God does not exist.” Every Christian is firmly convinced that Allah (as depicted by Islam) does not exist. They don’t just “lack the belief” they are confident he is a human creation. The Mormon God does not exist. The Christian Science God does not exist. The Aztec Gods, Greek Gods, Hindu Gods, Roman Gods, Druidic Gods, Egyptian Gods, Babylonian Gods—all do not exist. Of course, on the flip side many people hold the Christian God does not exist either.<BR/><BR/>Regardless of what theist god I am debating at the moment, more people have stated that god does not exist than have stated it does.<BR/><BR/>But does that mean there can’t be <I>any</I> god?<BR/><BR/>You state “theoretically, the all-powerful God can do anything…” Well, not anything! Can God logically exist and not exist at the same time? By our conventional understanding of logic, “existence” and “non-existence” are contradictory, and therefore the statement, “God can logically exist and not exist at the same time” is impossible. <BR/><BR/>In discussing theism, at some point, we must agree to the terms we use, and how to use them, or the entire discussion breaks down. We may not agree, but if we can use any term to mean anything, and throw out the laws of logic, then our discussion will be in vain. It would look like:<BR/><BR/>Me: What about the Problem of Evil?<BR/>Theist: Ah, but God can snork with a trifling, and he has contained both Evil and Good, which means there is no Evil, only Good.<BR/>Me: What does any of that mean?<BR/>Theist: God is not bound by definition or logic, so this is a defense that there is such a god.<BR/><BR/>Argue with a mystic sometime. It like a bad drug trip from the 60’s!<BR/><BR/>If there is some God out there that does not conform to any standard by which we can talk about it, I guess it arguably <I>could</I> exist. But why bother talking about it?<BR/><BR/>As to a God of delusion, yes it is possible that such a God exists, and within its power, and not only deliberately all traces of its existence, but equally places evidence completely contrary to its existence.<BR/><BR/>But how could one argue in favor of such a God? One would have to concede that every proof against God was viable, just not true. That every proof FOR God was human creation, since God is hiding all proof. OR one has to devise a method by which we determine what proofs for God are divine, and what proofs for God are human. <BR/><BR/>Which, then loses the God sending delusion, because the claim would be God is sending only some delusion.<BR/><BR/>Further, I could debate with such a theist and claim that aliens are actually controlling us with strings, and then hiding all traces of their existence. This is <B>equally</B> as viable as the delusion God. Or any other theory as to what is happening about us is just a delusion for some other reality.<BR/><BR/>How could the theist argue I am incorrect? I use the same method, and some level of proofs to come to my conclusion.<BR/><BR/>No, I cannot disprove God absolutely. However, the chances of god are so remote and so slim, that I confidently state no such creature exists.<BR/><BR/>Faith? Hmmmm….<BR/><BR/>Faith is the belief in something with the complete absence of evidence. Most importantly, not “trust” (belief in repetition based on past experience). The evidence that I do have points very strongly that there is no God. Is it some form of faith, though to stay that the chances are so slight, that I use the terms “There is no god”? That there is an absence of evidence of a absolute proof against God?<BR/><BR/>Not so sure about that.<BR/><BR/>I do not believe aliens replace my wife with an exact replica every night. But I have no absolute proof. I do not believe my toenails scream in a frequency I cannot hear when I cut them, but without absolute proof, is it this faith?<BR/><BR/>For me, personally, I would avoid this term of faith, because I think it diminishes what theists mean by faith (even their stating “You have to have faith to be an atheist” diminishes their term of faith) and we start to get back into that area where we lose the ability to communicate because we cannot agree on our terms.<BR/><BR/>I would like to see you flesh that out a bit, though. “Do atheists have faith?”<BR/><BR/>Final note: I understand and defend the position of the atheist that says “lack of belief in a god.” (I hate the term “weak” atheist, only because of its implications. Same reason I don’t use the term “Old” Testament.) I most certainly do NOT say that all such atheists should adopt my position. It is just where I fall.<BR/><BR/>Of course, I know you are not stating that I should not be a strong atheist, either.DagoodShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04557451438888314932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-1145720255585428192006-04-22T11:37:00.000-04:002006-04-22T11:37:00.000-04:00You better stay away from Hellbound Alleee. She a...You better stay away from Hellbound Alleee. She argues that morals are absolute, and based on facts.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20896717.post-1145649538574373682006-04-21T15:58:00.000-04:002006-04-21T15:58:00.000-04:00A great read!A great read!Zoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04114216106572393906noreply@blogger.com